We Are More Then Just Data Points - Charlie Hart - Professional Keynote Speaker | Neurodivergent | Autistic | ADHD #255

Embracing Neurodiversity: A Conversation with Charlie Hart

In this heartfelt episode of the Us People podcast, host Savia Rocks kicks off a new season focusing on genuine compassion and creative vision. 

Guest Charlie Hart, a neurodiversity advocate and professional speaker for neurodiversity and LGBT inclusion, shares their powerful life story. Born into a neurodivergent family, Charlie navigates through challenges with autism and ADHD, ultimately finding a niche in HR analytics. 

After facing various personal struggles and the tragic loss of their son, Charlie discovers their true calling and now dedicates their life to advocating for acceptance and understanding of neurodiversity and LGBTQ+ identities. This episode reminds us of the importance of self-acceptance and the impact of kindness.

00:00 Welcome to the Us People Podcast
00:55 Meet Charlie Hart: Neurodiversity Advocate
02:14 Charlie's Early Life and Education
05:10 Discovering Neurodiversity
06:07 Embracing Neurodiversity and Advocacy
09:51 Personal Struggles and Triumphs
14:22 Promoting Acceptance and Understanding
19:12 The Power of Role Models and Community
31:43 Struggling with Trauma and Depression
33:33 Discovering Self-Compassion and Resilience
35:57 Inspiration from Neurodiversity Advocates
41:26 Reflecting on Judgment and Life Choices
49:55 Legacy and Everyday Impact
55:57 Promoting Acceptance and Community Support

Thank you so much, Charlie, for standing up, being beautifully different and embracing it.

Website: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ausomecharlie/

We are not a number that can be controlled, we are all different, with the power to embrace equality - Savia Rocks

Transcript

We Are More Then Just Data Points -Charlie Hart - Professional Keynote Speaker | Neurodivergent | Autistic | ADHD #255

[00:00:00] Savia Rocks: Hey guys, and welcome to another season of the Us People podcast. I'm your host, Savia Rocks, and in this season, we uncover the remarkable power of genuine compassion and insightful vision. This season, we're here to show the world that we, as individuals, are the brand, regardless of misconceptions. Join us as we go deep into the inspiring journeys of our guests.

[00:00:26] Each one a testament to the impact and influence of kindness and creativity. Don't just take my word for it, hear their stories, feel their passion, and discover the transformative potential within us all. So stay tuned. As we shine a light on the truth that connects us and inspires change.

[00:00:55] Charlie Hart: Hi, my name is Charlie Hart, also known as Awesome Charlie with an AU for [00:01:00] autistic, and I'm a neurodiversity advocate and a professional speaker about neurodiversity and LGBT inclusion in the workplace. And you're listening to the Us People podcast with Savia Rocks.

[00:01:21] Savia Rocks: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the yes people podcast. I'm your host, Savia rocks. And today I have the beautiful Charlie here with me, who is a neo diverse advocate and a keynote speaker. Charlie, I want to thank you so much for taking your time to come on the yes people podcast. How are you? 

[00:01:39] Charlie Hart: Yeah, I'm good.

[00:01:39] Thanks. Yeah. It's nice to be here. I've heard a lot about you from my friend, Fiji. Panchal, who was recently on the podcast. Oh 

[00:01:47] Savia Rocks: yeah, that 

[00:01:48] Charlie Hart: was pretty cool. 

[00:01:49] Savia Rocks: Yeah, we, we had some technical issues, but it went, it went quite well, and you know, it's one of those things where I always say to people in life, no matter what challenges you have, you must always [00:02:00] push through them.

[00:02:01] Absolutely. 

[00:02:02] Charlie Hart: And the end podcast was great. I listened to it while I was out on a walk in the countryside. 

[00:02:08] Savia Rocks: That's super cool. So it's your turn. So I'm so humbled to have you here and to be introduced to you and what you do. So Charlie, my first question for you is, could you tell me about yourself, where you grew up and how that influenced you to be the person who you are today?

[00:02:25] Charlie Hart: Sure, I'll try not to ramble too much because it's obviously a long story. I'm nearly 50. You don't look 50 at all. I was 49 last week, believe it or not. Yeah, so I, uh, I grew up in Nuneaton in the Midlands of England and from a very neurodivergent family, but at the time we didn't know we were all neurodivergent.

[00:02:50] So my brother, like me, he has autism and ADHD. Unlike me though, he has learning disabilities as well. [00:03:00] So, whereas I was like a clever kid and I went to a normal school, no one knew that there was really anything different about me, but my brother went to special school. So, as far as everyone knew, I was normal in inverted commas.

[00:03:16] I don't actually know any normal person, so hence the inverted commas, but yeah, I went to mainstream school. I was always a bit nerdy, always a bit weird, didn't really follow the fashions, I wasn't part of the in crowd, but I got through, got my O levels, got some A levels, even though I couldn't study. I didn't do any homework.

[00:03:40] When I got to university is when I really fell off the rails because I've got ADHD and I didn't know and yeah, basically, I couldn't live on my own and without any adult supervision and do what I was supposed to be doing. do little things that others could do, like [00:04:00] joining the library and the computer room.

[00:04:02] I just really floundered. So forward winding a bit then, I was really lucky because I fell into, quite by chance, I fell into human resources. carved a niche in the analytical side of human resources. So supporting HR systems, I was doing HR product, project work, producing management information, calculating salary increases and bonuses, all that kind of thing.

[00:04:29] So it was HR, but not the fluffy diplomatic people side of HR. It was the analytical side. And I thrived. But then after I had my eldest kid, I really, really struggled with my mental health. I was chronically overwhelmed, quite often burning out, and for 15 years, this was the pattern. So I had my job in HR, I was doing pretty well, but I was constantly being picked up about my meeting behaviours, about my communication, things like that.[00:05:00] 

[00:05:00] I'd seen my peers that started at the same time getting promoted above my head while I was going nowhere and getting criticized really for who I am. Yeah. And at the end of that period, I found out that my son, when he was 14, we found out he was autistic. And I realized that a lot of what they said to him about the struggles that he had related to me.

[00:05:25] So I realized I was autistic as well. We both went through the diagnostic process together. And so at the age of 42, after feeling broken and, and substandard for a really, really long time, I finally realized that actually there's nothing wrong with me. I'm just autistic. I'm just built differently. You have a gift.

[00:05:49] You have a 

[00:05:49] Savia Rocks: gift that other people don't have. And sometimes people might either find that threatening. Or don't know how to interpretate with you and who you are. So that's what it is. [00:06:00] 

[00:06:00] Charlie Hart: Ah, yeah, and I was struggling, unsupported, and not really understanding myself and my own needs. So at that time in my life, I, uh, like a lot of people, like a lot of late diagnosed autistic people do when they realise they're autistic, I researched the subject, and it was my new, passionate, highly focussed I read a lot about autism, a lot about the lived experience of autistic adults rather than just information from autism experts.

[00:06:32] I wanted to know what it's like to be autistic and what things you can do to help yourself. So I found the actually autistic community on Twitter and I found the neurodiversity community at the same time. So this really, uh, I latched onto this concept and I really ran with it. So I got more and more invested in this idea that every human brain and [00:07:00] mind is unique.

[00:07:01] We all experience the world in different ways. We've all got our own unique strengths and challenges. Every single human being processes inputs in, in a different way. We all. think, feel, and process slightly differently from one another. But then when you realize that you've got a neurodevelopmental difference like autism or ADHD, which I later found out I have as well, when you realize that, then you find that there's other people that have common experiences and you can help each other and learn from each other.

[00:07:37] And. When you realise that it isn't that there's something broken about you, it's something that's different, and that differences are good, like biodiversity in nature, neurological diversity in the human species is an advantage. That's the neurodiversity paradigm. It's a new way to [00:08:00] frame it. It's not saying some brains are good and others are defective.

[00:08:04] It's a natural part of diversity and it helps us as a species. So, so this is me and I got really into it and then I started talking about it and writing about it and eventually I quit my HR day job like I was an HR analyst for 20 years. 18 months ago I quit that job and I'm now self employed and I now talk about autism and ADHD and neurodiversity acceptance and related themes.

[00:08:33] And I now do that for a living. 

[00:08:36] Savia Rocks: So, 

[00:08:36] Charlie Hart: yeah. 

[00:08:37] Savia Rocks: So that's the beautiful thing, Charlie, you found your calling in your 

[00:08:41] Charlie Hart: really late in life. You know, 

[00:08:44] Savia Rocks: yesterday I was talking to a lady and I was interviewing her and she was 55. And, and she said to me, she's an actor. And she said to me, you know, It's rather like they never, and I said, there's never a late time.

[00:08:58] I said, there are people who are [00:09:00] making companies 60, 70, 80, and they're thriving and they're leaving a legacy behind. You guys are doing exactly the same thing. You fit into that bracket where, you know what, you can say, I don't care what anyone thinks anymore because you're at that age where you can feel liberated by who you are as a person.

[00:09:18] And push yourself forward to show people that you're an inspiration to people in the world because you're one of those people that don't give up. You're like, yes, I found something because some people will work a 9 to 5 and there's nothing wrong with working a 9 to 5 if that's something that you love doing and it's not destroying your soul.

[00:09:36] But if there's something else that's calling you Charlie and saying. I need to do this or be this, then you're an inspiration because you didn't give up or say, I'm just going to do this for the rest of my life. And that's a positive thing. 

[00:09:51] Charlie Hart: Thank you. Yeah, I think I could have, I could have stayed an HR analyst up until retirement, but then I found something where I thought I can [00:10:00] make more of a difference to more people.

[00:10:02] And the other thing is that I had quite low confidence and low self esteem through my earlier adulthood. But discovering that I could get up and talk about this in front of people and they wanted to hear what I've got to say. Even getting repeat bookings from the same client sometimes, it's hugely validating.

[00:10:23] But it's also a bit of a buzz, because back when I was a teenager, before I kind of lost my sparkle, I used to do amateur dramatics, so I was always wanting to be on the stage in front of people and I got a buzz out of it. Then I listened to Way too many people who told me that I was too much, or not enough, or awkward, or any of those things.

[00:10:47] And it's only then, when I've got to the age where I think, No, actually, I accept who I am, and I'm happy in my skin. And I don't care if I'm a bit awkward, it's all part of my charm. [00:11:00] So, I've got to the stage now where I don't care. and if anyone mocked me or bullied me for speaking out now about my neurotype and who I am and being LGBT as well and any, any aspect of my character and who I am, if anyone mocked me for any of that it, I'm confident enough now that I could think well that reflects badly on them, not on me.

[00:11:25] Savia Rocks: I always say to people how you treat me is a reflection of yourself, how I treat you is a reflection of myself. If I consistently carry that with me throughout my life, I'll always see my vision of who I am and know how to treat people. So that's abundantly important that you said that. And it's so true.

[00:11:42] So always stick with that. Never let anyone tell you who you are, what direction you're meant to come from, because people are always going to have an opinion on something. You know, so we're in charge of it, not them. 

[00:11:54] Charlie Hart: So, my next question is, yeah, go for it. You know, I could have, um, I could have sanded [00:12:00] off all my pointy bits, but then I wouldn't be a star.

[00:12:03] Aww. See, this is what makes you uniquely 

[00:12:07] Savia Rocks: you. 

[00:12:07] Charlie Hart: So, 

[00:12:08] Savia Rocks: you don't need to do that. From my point of view anyway, you don't. 

[00:12:12] Charlie Hart: And my, uh, kids are neurodivergent as well, so, if you did some research on me, you probably already aware, yeah, I lost my firstborn child, tragically. Uh, he ended his own life at the age of 15.

[00:12:29] He'd been bullied at school for being weird and different and they, I don't know if the kids at school necessarily knew that he was autistic. They didn't necessarily know that he was gay either, but they did know that he was different and that he was sensitive and he was vulnerable. So that made him a target for bullies and they tormented him and, and we tragically lost him.

[00:12:57] Now, that hasn't stopped me doing [00:13:00] what I'm doing. It happened, obviously, he and I went through the autism diagnosis together, and it happened the year after that. So when I was starting to do presentations and speeches about autism inclusion and acceptance, and I was very happy and flappy about being autistic, and I thought it was great.

[00:13:21] It really helped mitigate my struggles and accept who I am. But at the same time, he was It's getting really bad treatment from bullies. So we tragically lost Iggy at the age of 15, but I have two, two other kids who were younger than him. One of them is now 16, so they've got past that age, but I, uh, my why really is I want to do what little I can to make the world a better place for them.

[00:13:54] Savia Rocks: That's understandable. That's 100%. My 16 

[00:13:57] Charlie Hart: year old is autistic and ADHD [00:14:00] as well and she is LGBT. Um, and so is the younger one. We don't know if she's autistic as we do know she's autistic. Sorry. We don't know if she has ADHD as well, but the whole family is neurodivergent and queer and I'm doing what I can to promote a message of acceptance and understanding.

[00:14:22] Awareness isn't enough. Autism awareness isn't enough. We all know autistic people exist. What I want is for people to realise that it's actually pretty common and there's nothing wrong with it. And there's, uh, it's completely fine to be autistic. and gay and trans and non binary and any of those things that we're way more common and normal than you think.

[00:14:47] And that we're just humans like any other. We want acceptance. We want to be included, supported, believed and, and loved more than anything. [00:15:00] Yeah. We don't have special needs. We have human needs like everyone else. 

[00:15:05] Savia Rocks: I think we give something positive to the world. That's what I believe. Yeah, I believe neo diverse gay L-G-B-T-Q.

[00:15:15] To be honest with you, religion, culture, every single one of us gives something positive. Without the culture, we can't see people's history and heritage Without you know love, you won't see. Without L-G-B-T-Q, you won't see different types of love. Compassion and kindness is what I live for. That's one of the biggest things I live for is that So and being like I say being, you know, near diverse having autism adhd Um are things i'm always fidgeting.

[00:15:45] Um Oh, one of the things I think i'm fidgeting with the bracelet. Yeah Mine's on my wrist. I usually have it off and it's really long. So These are the things that Give a different perspective to people's minds rather than and I don't [00:16:00] believe in this word normal. I don't think anyone's normal I think people just put words out there to try and put you in a box in a bracket Yeah, so they can just fit you in there.

[00:16:10] Okay, you're this I'm gonna put you in that box You're this so they know how to control the system of things, but that's not the way it works And sometimes I feel like we sometimes fretting people who don't understand something or are ignorant to the fact of it. And I mean, ignorance in just in the sense, Charlie, of the lack of knowledge towards the subject.

[00:16:31] They don't get it. And some of them don't want to get it. That's where they fit into the ignorance bracket and and it's just about us Showing them love because if anybody comes for example at me with hate I will give them twice as much love back because I don't harbor the hate I won't take it on and that's something that I feel that should be taught more in schools, especially because schools are a major part of Who we [00:17:00] are and what we become because teachers, which I'm sure we're going to talk about at some point, teachers play a huge factor within us and help us in our ways like I'm sure there's maybe a teacher that you remember that may have helped you in school and you remember that teacher and they said one sentence to you that helped you to either do something positive in your life or just want to be who you are as a person.

[00:17:27] Charlie Hart: Absolutely. There were quite a few, but, um, parents as well. So I think one of the things that needs to happen. to have a more tolerant and accepting society that doesn't vilify people for human differences is that parents need to teach their kids to be nice to others and not mock people just for being different.

[00:17:51] Yeah. It's no good, um, putting all of the onus on schools because the habits of things like [00:18:00] accepting somebody or mocking them, they start a lot younger than that. I think very young kids before they can even form full sentences. I agree with 

[00:18:09] Music: you. 

[00:18:09] Charlie Hart: They're already picking things up from their parents and other people around them.

[00:18:14] Savia Rocks: Yep. I agree with you so much on that. And that's one of the things that your role models who is whoever is the whoever are the people who are teaching you anything in your life. You can learn from the street from walking down the road and seeing another person's family. I remember walking down the road and a young boy was crying and the mother said to him boys don't cry.

[00:18:36] And I don't know what went in me. He said, I said, that's not true. She didn't like the fact that I said, that's not true. But I believe that tears are not a bad thing in the world. It's a way to express your emotions of how you're feeling. So again, whoever are your role models or the people who are bringing you up, like you say, Charlie, play a massive part [00:19:00] on who you become.

[00:19:00] But another thing is the choices that you make in your life. Also help you determine who you're going to be and you can change those choices at any time. You're not bound to it. And 

[00:19:12] Charlie Hart: I have, uh, one of my role models, I've got so many, so many role models where I saw them get up and talk particularly about lived experience.

[00:19:20] And it's made me see things a little differently and respect them. But one of the most recent ones I found is a lady called Cynthia Fortlidge, uh, who's openly trans, and she, she did a talk that I was, I was at as well. I think she was on before me, but I watched her speech before I did mine. Yes. And she talked about acceptance without understanding.

[00:19:47] So this is, um, this to me made me look at ignorance from a slightly different angle because she said, I can't remember her exact words, but basically that you don't have to [00:20:00] understand something to be accepting and supportive. So it's a kind of radical acceptance. For example, if you've got a kid who is non binary and you don't feel non binary yourself, you identify as a man or a woman and not, not, um, something in between or neither.

[00:20:23] So you can't relate to their experience, but you can still decide to accept them for who they are, to believe them and be accepting and compassionate and love them for who they are. So that's radical acceptance without the understanding. And I think that that is a, It's really an essential ingredient for humanity, especially when it's your kid, because, you know, parents have one job, and it's to accept their kid and unconditionally love them.

[00:20:58] So, if you, [00:21:00] if you're thinking, I love my kid, but not if they adopt an identity that I can't relate to, then you're kind of not doing that job. 

[00:21:07] Savia Rocks: Yeah, I agree with you there. I think a lot of the time, from talking to so many people, about neodiversity about, you know, LGBTQ or their child being LGBTQ and the parents not accepting it.

[00:21:21] I've realized that a lot of it comes from past history culture. So for example, um, being half Indian myself, um, My family may not accept it because of they're more worried about what other people will think rather than giving their love to the child. I again, it's the same, maybe with other people who might not understand it, whereas if somebody is a certain way and it's different to what they're normally normally in quotations used to, they like to make an assumption of how that person should be.[00:22:00] 

[00:22:00] And this is the problem, Charlie. Um, a lot of the time, people don't also make up their own minds. They're so, they're so concerned with other people's opinions rather than their own because someone inside could say, I don't have a problem. But because society is saying it's wrong, they go with society and because people like yourself who stand up and say, no, it starts at home, it goes to school, it goes from other places as well.

[00:22:32] And this is what we need to keep on doing. We need to keep the cycle of keep repeating it because if we keep showing more and more love, hopefully things will change. I 

[00:22:42] Charlie Hart: hope so. I mean, I could be really depressed and downhearted about the events recently, under the new presidency in America, for instance, and I have been at times, but I really think all I can do is keep promoting [00:23:00] acceptance, understanding and love.

[00:23:02] And it's not going to change the world, but it might have a ripple effect. 

[00:23:08] Savia Rocks: So there 

[00:23:09] Charlie Hart: might be people out there who, whose characteristics are frowned upon by American society, but I'm going to still tell them that I believe them, and I think they're valid, and that they exist, and, and love them, and accept them for who they are.

[00:23:29] And if we all do that, then it's definitely going to help. 

[00:23:33] Savia Rocks: We'll have a ripple effect eventually and that's one of the most beautiful things that can happen in life. I think people only have a power for a certain amount of time and then someone else comes and takes over. I know, I know it's going to be a very challenging four years from now, you know, and I think we all know that.

[00:23:49] But I, I have an optimism in my heart that even though there may be a lot of negativity, I'm hoping that we try and grab the positivity within it and [00:24:00] try and change it within ourselves. So one of my I'm sure 

[00:24:03] Charlie Hart: we will. I mean, I'm seeing the backlash. 

[00:24:06] Savia Rocks: I'm sure you are actually. Yeah. I'm seeing people 

[00:24:08] Charlie Hart: fighting back.

[00:24:10] And the, um, the other thing is that. They're quite outdated ideas that are being put into executive orders and Gen Z are not going to have any of that. And they're the population of the future. They're certainly the workforce of the future. Yes. They are going to expect that even if not having a diversity, equity and inclusion department or function in their employers, they're certainly going to be expecting to be treated like individuals and not forced into a box and to have their needs and preferences and ideas listened to and respected because they've grown up with access to information and they've grown up.

[00:24:59] with the tools [00:25:00] to be able to self advocate, which my generation never had. 

[00:25:04] Savia Rocks: See? See? One thing I would like to ask you is, with your son, what do you feel society can do to help this from happening to other families? Because I feel that it's so important that people are more aware that this is still happening.

[00:25:28] Because we, it's like, Charlie, it's like we move forward. But then we move one step forward and I feel like we move two steps backwards 

[00:25:37] Charlie Hart: Absolutely, I don't have all the answers but I do think that Spreading acceptance and compassion can help. I, I think that having role models who are, they're proud enough to, when I say proud I don't mean like, showing off, I mean the [00:26:00] opposite of shamed, yeah.

[00:26:01] If people can proudly state that they are autistic or gay or any of those other characteristics and others see it and think, oh I'm not alone, I'm, I'm the same. And then we won't have people feeling isolated and, and ashamed. We'll, we'll have more communities. And I see that even, I don't know why there's such a big shift, but between Iggy and his younger siblings, and there was a five year age gap between him and who, uh, Z, who's now 16.

[00:26:39] She was having none of it. She, um, right from day one, when she realized she was autistic, she was telling people, I'm autistic. I'm just built if, deal with it. Yeah. And the same when she realized she was gay and gender non conforming. So, she's always been openly neurodivergent and [00:27:00] openly queer, and If anyone makes her feel like that is a deficit or something wrong with her, she'll happily argue that.

[00:27:10] So it's quite a stark difference between her and her brother that was born five years sooner. And I don't know but Going to things like Pride marches seems to be really helping as well. So her and all her friends, uh, we've marched at Pride. We marched with the Naz and Matt Foundation charity. I'm going to be marching as Awesome Charlie at Birmingham Pride this year with my daughters and their friends.

[00:27:40] Aim for the Rainbow London Pride this year and last. And all of that stuff helps, because we're a diverse collection of people that are in that parade. But we've got something in common, that we could potentially be vilified and hide from society, but we choose not to. [00:28:00] We choose to go and march and protest and chant about it.

[00:28:05] And it's, I don't know, I don't know how to explain it, but there's some power in that. And it can help you then to shrug off the bullying. Obviously, I'd like less bullying to happen, but I think we need a two pronged approach. So it's no good just having like a zero tolerance to bullying policy because it's still going to happen.

[00:28:26] So we need to teach the kid that is being bullied that they are a good and fine person and that they don't need to change who they are. Um, as well as tackling the bullying. So I tried to do both of these things with Iggy and I just don't think I was, didn't quite cut through or I didn't get there soon enough, I don't know, but it certainly seems to be helping with the other two.

[00:28:54] Savia Rocks: I think, I know, I know things are, I've, I've heard these stories before where this has [00:29:00] happened. And it always intrigues me to understand from the parents perspective. I know the parents always feel like they, they could do more, but I can see the love there. And, and that in itself says a lot. I know a hundred percent.

[00:29:17] One thing I, one of my favorite questions that I do love asking my guests is quite a long one. So I'm going to break it down, which is, can you define yourself as a person, Charlie? But who do you see when you look in the mirror? 

[00:29:33] Charlie Hart: Okay, I should have prepared for this. I knew you were going to ask this. So, who do I see?

[00:29:41] I, um, a middle aged woman, but not, yeah, middle aged, but not, I'm a, I'm an overgrown kid at times. And, uh, yeah, I'm exuberant and full of life. I'm full of [00:30:00] autistic joy. If there's something that is, uh, sensory, Steam, whether it's music or running down a hill or seeing a beautiful view. It brings me joy. And yeah, there's, I'm sensitive and there's things that do bring me down in my life.

[00:30:16] And, uh, but I'm always hopeful and optimistic, so I'm, yeah. What am I? I'm this person that's bounding through life, overcoming obstacles. I'm picturing a hurdler now, but I'm not quite that energetic. But yeah, I'm quirky and neurodivergent and queer, and I'm out of my shell now, and I'm not hiding any of that from the world.

[00:30:45] Savia Rocks: But that's the thing, you shouldn't, I don't feel like you should have to hide any of it. I don't think you should ever have to do that. So I love the fact that you answered that, but the here's the second part, okay? So on the flip side of that [00:31:00] question of looking at yourself in the mirror or your reflection of yourself in the mirror, has there ever been a time in your life where you have looked in the mirror and not recognize the person staring back at you?

[00:31:13] Charlie Hart: Yeah. Yeah, so I hit a, quite a major rock bottom in 2007. So this is a couple of years after I had Iggy. Um, I had a couple of really traumatic missed miscarriages when I was trying for my second child. And I know it's sad losing a baby, but I, what I went through was traumatic in a PTSD kind of way as well.

[00:31:43] So I got a lot of sympathy about my loss and about not having a baby yet and losing the ones that I was pregnant with. But I didn't really get any kind of help through the trauma. So what I did, I [00:32:00] had like a trauma response where my behavior just got more and more off the rails. I was getting in trouble at work.

[00:32:06] Uh, my marriage was pretty much on the rocks, and I had a, a friend at work. She was like one of my best friends that I used to go out with quite a lot. And she, she had a real big falling out with me and I sat, I sat and bowled my fists into balls and I'd got tears. Running down my face and I couldn't breathe and I thought I don't like who I am I don't recognize who I am and I don't want to be here anymore.

[00:32:38] So what? What came out of that is I had I went to the doctors and they they said I'd got depression I think now in hindsight, it was more of a autistic burnout, but I did the things that It looked like depression, you know, so I did the things that they tell you to do. I took some [00:33:00] time off work. I'd spent some time doing self care activities like going for long walks.

[00:33:08] I rested. I did some mind mapping. I worked through a self help book about overcoming. Anxiety through, uh, CBT, um, Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. I went to psychoanalytical psychotherapy. At that time, I didn't know I was autistic still, so it was quite a while. It was another 11 years before I found out I was autistic.

[00:33:33] But I didn't like who I was, and I thought I had nothing to offer, and that things were never going to get better. I felt pretty wretched. And what helped is I, I realised that actually I do a lot. to help other people. Not big things, just like normal day to day things like picking up my sister in law's kids from school and feeding them because she had to [00:34:00] go and do a thing, you know, just day to day, uh, acts of kindness and helping other people.

[00:34:08] One of the reasons that I hated myself really then is because I thought I was a bit of an ice maiden and that I didn't have deep feelings. And I, it turns out that it's just that. I'm autistic and my feelings weren't that close to the surface. So psychotherapy, it was like ripping off a plaster and exposing a gaping wound underneath.

[00:34:31] So it gets harder before it gets easier. But it did make me realize that I have all the feelings that they just don't present in a typical way. So I came out of that and it still took me quite a a lot longer to realize I was autistic and to start putting myself back together. But I came out of that realizing that I needed a bit of compassion and that I was different and that, uh, I needed to understand more about, particularly about trauma, [00:35:00] uh, recent big traumas and kind of trauma from earlier in life.

[00:35:04] from a fairly difficult childhood and school bullying and stuff like that. I needed to process that those traumas but in a patient way and and not to be so judgmental of myself. 

[00:35:22] Savia Rocks: I 

[00:35:22] Charlie Hart: think that's one of the hardest 

[00:35:23] Savia Rocks: things. I think we as people were so hard on ourselves. Well, we even if people judge other people when it comes to ourselves, we always turn around and say that's not good enough.

[00:35:33] We didn't do enough. We could have done more and those are the things we need to To look at ourselves and say, you know what, you've done great today. You're a great person. And just lift yourself up. Hundred percent. 

[00:35:47] Charlie Hart: So I found my resilience coming out of that really it was awful, but I know I When you survived your worst days, you can do it again.

[00:35:56] Yeah. 

[00:35:57] Savia Rocks: Yeah. No, that makes complete sense to me I would love to [00:36:00] know who are some of the people I know you spoke about one of them who who was You know, having a talk, doing a talk, um, but who are some of the people in your life? Because I think that's very important, but also people outside of your life who inspire you, intrigue you to do what you do and continue the process of helping communities understand everything about you.

[00:36:27] Charlie Hart: Oh, there's so many. It's hard to narrow it down. Let's go. Yeah. So I know people who. like, influencers in the neurodiversity space who can help a lot of people all at once to not feel so broken and alone. But then I know people who don't have the big platforms and that are not very well known, but that fight tirelessly to do things like get quack cures for autism abolished.

[00:36:55] No, there's people who work with vulnerable families [00:37:00] that are really struggling and they help them and really get close, close enough to be able to support them through and out the other side, which I couldn't do. I have to have a boundary about that because I would get too invested. And if, if things went wrong, it would really take me down.

[00:37:15] But there's people that put themselves out there and risk that, uh, foster parents. Yeah. I know you hear some horror stories, but I'm sure Amazing cost to parents who take on kids that have I've been through quite a lot and may be really particularly difficult to look after and to love. But they do, because there's not something wrong with the kid.

[00:37:39] There's something wrong with how that kid has been treated. And they need compassion and love, like I keep coming back to. There are people that really put themselves out there and risk persecution and even murder to say, this is who I am. And I [00:38:00] exist. And so there's more of me out there. I haven't mentioned many names, but an autism advocate who tirelessly campaigns against mistreatment of autistic kids and quack cures is Emma Dalmain of Autistic Inclusive Meats.

[00:38:18] They're based in London, but we formed a team within that called Aim Rainbow. And I'm part of that team. So I'm in Birmingham, but I'm one of the aim rainbow team. We're all queer neurodivergent volunteers and we work together to do things to promote acceptance and love of neurodivergent and LGBT young people.

[00:38:42] So everyone on that team is my hero. David Grey Hammond, I'd need, I really need to mention him. One of my very dear friends, and he and I discovered the same time in 2018 that we were autistic. We met each other on [00:39:00] actually autistic Twitter, and we've been friends ever since. And his niche is, he talks about how autistic people can quite often, uh, become, um, uh, they can go through addiction.

[00:39:15] Yes. And that doesn't mean that they are bad people. There's reasons for it. You know, you'll talk about how, uh, the moral model of addiction that a lot of us automatically, uh, judge drug addicts as being having some kind of moral failing and that's flawed. So understanding how people uh, can go down a path where they end up with an addiction.

[00:39:46] It could start with self soothing, self medicating behaviors. It could start with something to dull the sense, senses in, uh, like noisy nightclubs and pubs and, um, to help, help [00:40:00] lubricate conversation when you're socially awkward. And it can get, uh, out of hand. So it's, it doesn't mean that people are bad and they need compassion too.

[00:40:12] So David Grey Hammond puts himself out there and talks about this and he also talks about schizophrenia and the pipeline between having autism and or ADHD but not receiving the support that you need and actually You could end up having minor mental health conditions like an anxiety disorder, but it's treated in a way that is really harmful for you when you're neurodivergent, and you can end up then becoming in this kind of cycle where it turns to psychosis.

[00:40:48] So he's schizophrenic and he talks about that. And so I've got a lot of respect for people who they're neurodiversity advocates, but they shine a light on the [00:41:00] side of it. That isn't so corporate friendly. It isn't all just autism and ADHD and super strengths that, uh, yeah, there are people with schizophrenia and they exist too, and neurodivergent umbrella too.

[00:41:16] And. there's not something wrong with them. Their brains very much at times work in a different way, but yeah, again, they need compassion 

[00:41:25] Savia Rocks: and love. And this is what leads me to my next question about judgment. Judgment is one of the things that can tear us apart abundantly. But one of the things I would love to ask you, Charlie, is If there was no judgment in the world, so say I take the word judgment out of the dictionary, okay?

[00:41:45] And I know you've been through a lot in your life just from me telling, just from you telling me about your story now, about everything that you've been through. If I took the word judgment out of the dictionary, what do you believe, Charlie, that you would have done [00:42:00] differently in your life, knowing that nobody is judging you?

[00:42:04] Charlie Hart: Oh, that's a difficult one. I think I'd have had quite a different life because for a start I wouldn't have stayed in a long term permanent HR job that was quite so overwhelming to me for quite such a long time because actually I'm not I'm not that bothered about having like a big steady salary. I, I'm more bothered about doing some of the other things that makes me human and enjoy life as well.

[00:42:35] There's an inherent value in being a human. It isn't all about these capitalist notions of you need to get a full time job and climb the corporate career ladder. So I'm really into making music and art and enjoying nature. So, without, um, I think without judgement you can Shake off some of those societal [00:43:00] expectations and constraints and be more like, I don't know, I'm picturing it being kind of a more wild existence, being a bit more feral, but not in a, not in a negative way, more in a Gerald Durrell in my family and other animals kind of way.

[00:43:20] He's this this kid who's, he's very autistic coded, but, uh, his family moved to, I think it was Corfu, some Greek island anyway, that was teeming with wildlife. And he was just this feral, um, boy that was just like following, uh, following wild animals everywhere, lizards and, and things, and not really paying attention to schoolwork and stuff, and then became a famous author.

[00:43:45] So I, I kind of look at his life and think it would be amazing to have lived a life like that without the potential, the weight of potential. You must do your exams, you must go to university, you must get a career, you must climb the corporate [00:44:00] ladder, but just to lean into things that you really enjoy. 

[00:44:06] Savia Rocks: I love that.

[00:44:06] So you spoke about music just a second ago. And I want to ask you, if there was one song, Charlie, that was the soundtrack of your life, what song would you choose and why would you choose that song? 

[00:44:19] Charlie Hart: The soundtrack of my life? Oh, that's a, that's a difficult one, but, uh, Starlight by Muse is a really special song to me that I find very relatable.

[00:44:33] Yeah, and I also really get a lot of joy out of belting it out. Yeah. 

[00:44:39] Savia Rocks: Yeah, I like that. I love that one. So if I was to say to you, when was the last time that you felt totally at peace with yourself? What would you say to me? 

[00:44:53] Charlie Hart: That would have been last Sunday when I went for a long, slow run, and it was a cold [00:45:00] day, and I'd had a bit of a chest infection or something like that going on for a while, so I hadn't felt my full strength for a while, but last Sunday I ran 14 kilometres, and did it slowly, covered a lot of beautiful countryside, and I was happy to be alive.

[00:45:19] Savia Rocks: Oh, that's nice and easy. I love the way that you answered that one. That was just so peaceful. So, I always believe that the advice that we receive can help us in our lives. So, what is some of the best advice you have received and how has it helped you in your life?

[00:45:40] Charlie Hart: Oh, best advice. I'm struggling to think now, yeah. Being, I mean, I have been told many times over the years to be myself and not to compete with other people and just be the best I [00:46:00] can be. And yeah, so younger in life, I wouldn't have listened to that. But as I've got older, I do. And this is why I get joy out of running now.

[00:46:11] I think I'm not training for a race. I'm not trying to beat other runners. I'm just trying to help myself and if I want to push it a bit and beat my previous best times, that's great, but it's life isn't a competition. So I'm just trying to. Be myself and do what's good for me. 

[00:46:37] Savia Rocks: I think that I think that's good enough to be fair Charlie I think we all are on our own journey But sometimes we turn our heads left and right to see how everybody else's journey is doing Yeah, and then what we do is we compare our journeys when we shouldn't at all So I'm so I'm proud that you said that so here's a fun one for you If you were stuck on a desert island for 24 hours [00:47:00] and Charlie, I said to you You're allowed to speak to one president One activist and one musician.

[00:47:07] Who would you take on this island to speak to? If you need me to repeat it, I'll happily lead to, I'll be happy to one president did you say? One president, one activist, and one musician.

[00:47:22] And you're allowed to ask them anything? Yeah. 

[00:47:24] Charlie Hart: The president. I don't, yeah, I don't know about the president. Who would I take? I don't know. I'll come back to that one. The musician, uh, John Lennon. Oh, yes. That's a good one. Yeah. So, yeah, I think he wasn't always a perfectly nice man all the time, because who is?

[00:47:43] We're all human. But he said some things that have really stuck with me and obviously the music and the harmonies and the songwriting. But, uh, he, I keep seeing this, uh, this thing that he said about, um, if [00:48:00] someone asked him to define He asked, he was asked what he wanted to be when he grows up and he said happy and the person said, I don't think you understood the question.

[00:48:12] And he's like, I don't think you understand life. So yeah, happy as, yeah. No one, no one's going to be happy all the time though. So I'll caveat that. Yeah. If I can be happy 80 percent of the time and bounce back from the other 20, that will do me. That's good enough. But, um, the, uh, activist. Yeah, it's got to be Martin Luther King.

[00:48:36] Yeah, can't think of anybody else who has made such a change of mindset to so many people for such an enduring period of time. And, but he'd be spinning in his grave after listening to the inauguration speech on Monday. I think he 

[00:48:54] Music: wants to be quite fair. 

[00:48:56] Charlie Hart: Yeah, and, [00:49:00] yeah, if I could meet a president, it would probably be the current one, so that I could really argue with him about all the ignorant misconceptions he's got, 

[00:49:12] Savia Rocks: so 

[00:49:13] Charlie Hart: I can't think of one where I'd want to I'd be stuck with them to learn from them because, yeah, there isn't one that sticks in my mind, but there's certainly one that I would like to be able to put aside.

[00:49:27] The point of view of minority communities that are marginalized and he wouldn't be able to get off the island, he would have to listen to it. Yeah, and I've, maybe I've got some flares hidden somewhere, but I'm not going to let them off until he's heard what I've got to say. 

[00:49:45] Savia Rocks: So he's going to be trapped on there for a lot longer than 24 hours, believe me.

[00:49:48] I like that one, that sounds interesting. I would love to be there to actually see that conversation. So, I would love to know, there's one thing, legacy. A lot [00:50:00] of people have this, um, perception. That legacy is when you die, and then you leave behind what you leave behind, but I don't actually believe that's true, and I'd love to hear your opinion on this.

[00:50:11] I believe a legacy is your everyday occurrence, that you live in your life, and how you affect people on a daily basis. I believe that is a legacy, what you say, how you treat them, what you do for them, I believe all of these things are Based upon the legacy, but from your perspective, Charlie, which I'd love to hear.

[00:50:29] What would you like your legacy to be and how do you see the word legacy in your way? 

[00:50:36] Charlie Hart: Yeah, that's a really interesting one because I, um, I am so often told by people that that I've helped them in ways that I couldn't understand, but it's happened again and again. And it's not that I've done something big.

[00:50:53] It's that I've talked about my lived experience in a way that other people have found relatable. [00:51:00] And then they've gone through a similar journey of discovery to me, a similar epiphany. Like, they've realised that they've been struggling because they didn't realise they were autistic or ADHD. They've gone through then, often without even mentioning it to me, they've gone through that, um, that period of self identification and then a formal diagnosis as well.

[00:51:26] And then they come back to me and said, Guess what? I'm autistic too. Thank you so much. Or I'm ADHD too. And thank you so much. And that's allowed them to, build that self compassion that I was talking about. In the case of ADHD, it's sometimes helped people to get medication that has helped them to better cope with life.

[00:51:50] So I've made a profound impact on their lives by just talking about mine. Are you okay? Yeah, no, 

[00:51:57] Savia Rocks: it makes sense to me. No, I'm, I'm always listening. And [00:52:00] I think for me, it's important that when people understand what the legacy means and how they, how they touch people, what they say to people, because words are powerful.

[00:52:10] And people don't always realize the, it's not what you say, it's how you say that can have a profound effect on someone and can either build them up or break them down. But I'm always about lifting people up and, and I've always noticed in life, it's funny how negativity stretches out faster to people rather than positivity.

[00:52:33] So it's about just bringing it around and leaving a legacy that will be positive rather than negative. So, yeah, 

[00:52:39] Charlie Hart: definitely. And especially on social media because the stories that are negative and that anger people and upset people. They seem to get more reactions and then more reach and more exposure.

[00:52:53] So I keep sending out the messages of acceptance, hoping that they will [00:53:00] gather that same kind of momentum. But the other side to legacy as well, uh, After Iggy died, I, well, sometime after he died, about six, about six months after he died, I decided to paint rocks in his memory. And it started off, I was painting them with, uh, things that, that he enjoyed, like the Umbrella Academy, he was really into, and cars, uh, so, but then I thought I could paint things that might be validating to people who find them if they're, uh, going through a hard time or if they're lgbt or neurodivergent so then it became iggy rocks and i painted lots of them like about 50 of them and hid them all along the canal through worcestershire on retrace the steps of one of our walks on what would have been his 16th birthday [00:54:00] and People found them and I got Iggy Rocks on the back.

[00:54:03] So they found the Facebook group, Iggy Rocks, and quite a few people were saying I was having a really bad time, and then I found this and it made me smile. Is it okay if I keep it? So some people take a picture and then re hide the rock and others keep them, but it's the ones that want to keep them that probably need them the most.

[00:54:24] And it helps me because I'm, uh, I feel like I'm doing something, even if it's just small. And it's a creative outlet. So, this is a, I know this is an audio podcast, so I'll describe this. But, this is a quartz, a smooth quartz rock out of the bottom of a stream. So, on the back it says Facebook Iggy Rocks. On the front I drew a rainbow.

[00:54:49] But I, I accidentally drew it inside out, so the red is on the inside and the violet is on the outside. When I realised my mistake, I said, oh no, [00:55:00] I'm going to have to redo that. And my daughter, Zee, who was 11 at the time, I think, she said, no, don't do that. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just different.

[00:55:11] Like Iggy, Iggy was different and different is okay. And that's where I got my hashtag from, differentisok. So, it's the original Iggy Rock and the original differentisok. 

[00:55:22] Savia Rocks: See, everything happens for a reason. Every single thing that happens in all of our lives, including yours, it happens for an abundant reason.

[00:55:34] And we just need to realise that we don't need to change anything. Yeah. You know, that's so important. So, Charlie, I've had the pleasure. or speaking to you. It feels like I've been speaking to you only for 10 minutes. 

[00:55:46] Charlie Hart: Yeah, the hour has passed. 

[00:55:50] Savia Rocks: Yeah, it only feels like I've been speaking to you for 10 minutes, but I've just loved being able to just sit here.

[00:55:55] It felt so relaxing talking to you. But before I say thank you to you, I [00:56:00] would love to be able to help to promote who you are, what you do. Please tell everyone where they can find you, how they can support you, what you do, your community. I would love to be able to help. 

[00:56:12] Charlie Hart: Thanks very much. So my social media handle is AwesomeCharlie, with an AU for autistic, because I'm openly autistic.

[00:56:22] So you'll find me in lots of places under AwesomeCharlie. I'm on LinkedIn. That's probably my biggest platform. I'm on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. You can look at my website, www. awesomecharlie. com. awesomecharlie. co. uk where there's over 200 blogs about my lived experience and my allyship tips and things like that.

[00:56:45] Uh, you can find AIM Rainbow as well on Facebook and Instagram and, uh, we on YouTube yet? No, we're on Blue Sky. So AIM Rainbow. It's the queer volunteer part of Autistic Inclusive Meets. [00:57:00] We promote acceptance, love and understanding of young people on the double rainbow of autistic and LGBT. 

[00:57:08] Savia Rocks: I love that.

[00:57:09] That sounds awesome. Guys, please support Charlie. Go and support. Charlie, actually, I have to say thank you to you because you supported me on LinkedIn and promoted. Even before we came on the show. So this is me saying to you. Oh, you're welcome. I'm always humbled when, when, when people do such positive things.

[00:57:26] So thank you so much. I do 

[00:57:27] Charlie Hart: like to big up awesome people on LinkedIn. Yeah. 

[00:57:31] Savia Rocks: So yeah, I'm a big fan. Thank you. It's not 

[00:57:33] Charlie Hart: a competition. We, yeah, when we see somebody awesome, pick them up and it makes us look good as well. So it isn't purely altruistic. It's good marketing too. I like it. So we can rise together.

[00:57:45] Savia Rocks: That's very true. I abundantly agree with that. So Charlie, this is where I say to you. Thank you so much for coming on the ask people podcast for showing your compassion your kindness, but also telling your story in your [00:58:00] authentic way. So people can hear more about you what you do, but most of all get to know who you are as a person.

[00:58:06] so much. 

[00:58:07] Charlie Hart: Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. 

[00:58:11] Savia Rocks: You're more than welcome. And guys, I want to thank you for listening to the Ask People podcast. And please remember you can subscribe and leave us a review on Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, or any other platform that you prefer listening to.

[00:58:24] Please also follow us on Facebook, Instagram. They don't call it Twitter anymore, but I think they call it X now. But you can also follow us on there. And guys, this is where I say to you, thank you so much for listening. Stay happy, stay positive, and as always, please continue to be 

[00:58:44] Music: kind to one another. Take care.

[00:58:55] From how the people would perceive me It's my illusion that [00:59:00] awaits me We fight for our world With ourselves Our mental health Is silencing us from our health Social media The media is taking our time From connecting with each other so to so Why we dance pon tiktok Strike a pose pon instagram Fight the world pon a twitter feed Link a ting pon snapchat Why we dance pon tiktok Strike a pose pon a instagram Fight the world pon a twitter feed Link a ting pon snapchat Why we dance pon tiktok But the social media's corrupting me 

[00:59:43] Savia Rocks: From being who I am 

[00:59:45] Charlie Hart: Be excellent to each other 

[00:59:47] Savia Rocks: I like that, that sounds cool We're good 

[00:59:50] Charlie Hart: Charlie, are you okay?

[00:59:52] Yeah, yeah, that was great. Yeah. 

[00:59:55] Savia Rocks: You were awesome. You were absolutely fine. You didn't need to worry about anything. It's lovely to [01:00:00] meet you as well. And you too. And you too, most definitely. Thank you so much.

[01:00:37] Music: Why we dance on TikTok? Why we dance on TikTok? Why we dance on TikTok? Why we dance on TikTok? Strike a pose on Instagram Fight the world on Twitter Link a thing on Snapchat Why we dance on TikTok? [01:01:00] Strike a pose on Instagram Fight the world on Twitter Link a thing on Snapchat Why we dance on TikTok?