We Protect The Voiceless - May Lee – Veteran - Journalist - Entrepreneur - Educator & Activist - #246

Diving into Legacy and Empathy: An Interview with May Lee

In this compelling Season 5 episode of the Us People podcast, host Savia Rocks interviews May Lee, a journalist, author, professor, and activist.

The discussion explores May Lee journey from her early years facing racism in Ohio to her successful career in journalism and activism. May's shares her insights on identity, the power of words, the importance of integrity, and the need for community and empathy.

The conversation also gets deep into societal issues like gender disparities and the influence of powerful elites, emphasizing the importance of each person's legacy and the daily impact we can have.

00:00 Welcome to Season Five
01:13 Introducing May Lee
02:06 May Lee's Early Life and Challenges
05:45 Finding Purpose and Identity
12:33 Career Journey and Achievements
19:10 Discussing Gender Stereotypes and Inequality
22:58 Political Landscape and Media Influence
29:04 Strategies for Effective Communication
33:49 Understanding the Male Perspective
35:51 Empowering Women and Communities
40:05 Cultural Differences and Empathy
44:14 The Power of Words
46:05 Judgment and Self-Acceptance
55:58 The Importance of Curiosity and Travel
01:01:26 Legacy and Final Thoughts

Thank you so much May for showing us, sharing out power and gift to the voiceless gives them a purpose to find strength within themselves.

IG @mayleeshow

IG @shoesoffinsidemkt

Your Voice has the power to change the world, it just depends on how you use it  - Savia Rocks

Transcript

We Protect The Voiceless - May Lee – Veteran - Journalist - Entrepreneur - Educator - Activist

[00:00:00] Savia Rocks: Hey guys, we made it to season five of the Us People podcast. I'm your host Savia Rocks. And in this season, we aim to empower and embrace creativity through diversity as we dive into the fascinating stories and experiences of a diverse range of individuals. Highlighting their unique perspectives and creative endeavours from artists and entrepreneurs to innovators and activists.

[00:00:25] We celebrate the power of diversity in driving creativity and fostering positive change. Join us as we engage in thought provoking conversations like. I made myself intentionally homeless. In pursuit of my purpose, 

[00:00:41] Jay Harris: we're aware that a lot of people want to present and they, and they were in my position and, and what's worse, they weren't a white male, which is a joke that that's even still a thing.

[00:00:49] I 

[00:00:49] Mel: think my family never, ever say you can't do something. So full of support, full of support for whatever dream. If I said tomorrow, when I fly to the moon, they'll probably say, I wish you all the best smell. 

[00:00:59] Savia Rocks: So [00:01:00] guys. I just want to say thank you for supporting the us people podcast for the past five years.

[00:01:07] And we look forward to sharing another new theme song with you. Let's go. 

[00:01:13] May Lee: Hi there. This is May Lee. I am a journalist, author, professor, and activist, and you are listening to the us people podcast with Savia Rox.

[00:01:34] Savia Rocks: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Us People podcast. I'm your host Savia Rocks and today I'm abundantly humbled to have May Lee here with me. May Lee is a journalist, entrepreneur, educator, and activist. That has a lot of things to have under your belt, a lot of power to have under your belt and a lot of strength to have on your belt.

[00:01:54] Maylee, I want to thank you so much for taking your time to come on the Us People podcast. How are you? 

[00:01:59] May Lee: [00:02:00] Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm, I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay, but it's great to be on your show. Love it. 

[00:02:06] Savia Rocks: Definitely. So my first question I love to ask everyone is, could you tell me a bit about yourself, where you grew up and how that influenced you to be the person who you are today?

[00:02:17] May Lee: Yeah. Um, I was born in Ohio in the Midwest of the United States. So, and that was back in 19, I, I'm not afraid to tell my age back in 1966. And after that, though, my parents decided to move back to Korea when I was only a year and a half. So my, my first really sort of exposure to anything was really Korea and that's what I learned language was.

[00:02:41] But then after a few years, my parents decided to move back to The United States, because Korea at the time was still politically unstable. And so they were afraid that there might be another war. And so they made the sacrifice for the sake of me and my brother. And we moved back to the [00:03:00] States. We ended up back in Ohio.

[00:03:02] Don't ask me why. But because of that, growing up in Ohio, this was, you know, now the 70s and 80s. Um, as an Asian American kid. Um, it was an interesting, challenging experience that shaped me, uh, because, you know, I was in pretty much a very white environment and there was a lot of racism, um, that I faced not daily, but a lot of teasing, a lot of bullying in school because I was the only Asian and people didn't even know where I was from, where my parents were from.

[00:03:36] Korea was an abstract place at that time. Now, Korea is all the rage, right, which makes crowd, you know, it's like Korean food, K drama, K pop, but back then, not at all. So those experiences at a very young age really shaped me, um, because it made me really aware of the ugliness of racism and otherism and, [00:04:00] you know, being the perpetual foreigner, even though I was born in America.

[00:04:05] Um, so I know that that affected me in a negative way, but later on in life, I realized that it was very powerful for me to know that from a young age and to be prepared for what was to come. And, you know, now we're faced with a situation here in the U S we can get to that later, but, but I think that really led me to become a journalist.

[00:04:30] Um, because I wanted to give voice to the voiceless. I wanted to tell stories that weren't being told. I wanted justice. Journalists really allowed me to do a lot of that. Um, and that, and you know, it's, it was almost divine that I became a journalist, um, and realizing later in life, wow, all of those experiences as a kid growing up, all of those challenges.

[00:04:57] You know, really open my eyes to things so that I [00:05:00] could be more empathetic Yes. And more. Yeah. 

[00:05:04] Savia Rocks: I love the fact that you said that. Trust me, I know how that feels. Believe me,

[00:05:11] One of the, one of the most heartfelt questions I love to ask guests, uh, well, it is, I should say, is can you define yourself as a person, but also who do you see? When you look in the mirror, but on the flip side of that question, has there ever been a time where you have looked in the mirror and not recognized the person staring back at you?

[00:05:31] How did you manage to go from a place where it could have been darkness, it could have been not the person that you perceive yourself to be, to being a person of purpose and giving the voiceless like you said? 

[00:05:45] May Lee: Yeah, you know, I'm going to start with that, um, that question first of, you know, were there times when I looked in the mirror and I didn't recognize myself or I didn't know who I was.

[00:05:54] Absolutely. Um, it wasn't until later in life, again, I keep saying that until [00:06:00] I really did grasp my identity and valued myself fully. Um, and it's still a work in progress. Believe me, when people are listening to this, don't think that I'm there. I think it's constantly a work in progress for the rest of your life.

[00:06:13] You know, it's an evolution. But when I was younger, yeah, again, because I was surrounded in this environment of, you know, you know, pretty much white, you know, people and nobody who looked like me. either around me physically or in the media or any kind of representation. Of course, when I looked in the mirror as a young kid, I didn't want to be who I was.

[00:06:37] I didn't want to be Asian. You know, I wanted blonde hair. I wanted blue eyes. I didn't even change my name, right? Because I wanted to fit in and I. And this is a common story of a lot of us who are people of color or outsiders, right? We want to belong. And so that was a [00:07:00] regular thing for me, a regular feeling for me for a long time, as a kid, as a young woman, as a young girl, a teenager, you know, into college.

[00:07:08] But you know, with my evolution and then finding my voice and my identity and recognizing that Instead of it being a weakness and feeling less than, I feel like, wait a minute, this is my identity. This is who I am. I come from a long history of Koreans who are powerful, who are survivors, who've been around for thousands of years.

[00:07:34] So I had to finally realize that that's who I am. And then find that calling, like I talked about before, and use that strength and power and my identity. right? Uh, to my benefit rather than seeing it as, you know, a fault or something lacking. Right? But there'll be moments of, I mean, there are still moments sometimes when I [00:08:00] wonder, uh, am I living up to what I should be doing to my purpose?

[00:08:06] Um, I know I'm very focused with what, what, what my purpose and my calling has been. Yes. Just like every other human being, we have our doubts sometimes. And we're tired. Yes. The fight continues, but man, am I tired. I'm, I'm really feeling exhausted and asking myself, can I keep doing this? And then I say, well, I have to.

[00:08:33] I mean, I have to. 

[00:08:36] Savia Rocks: I think if we do it united. It becomes a little bit easier when you're doing it or you're standing alone in the world or you feel like you're standing alone in the world as often sometimes we do as women, as individuals, as a community. Sometimes you feel like you're stagnant. You're is this me?

[00:08:55] Is this meant for me? Am I doing the right thing like you said? But to be [00:09:00] honest with you There is a purpose for it which all of us are connected through energy in some way For a reason even this interview happened for a reason I think everything is intertwined for a reason and a purpose. It's just that Some of us have to go through a lot more in order to have our statement heard, whereas some of us have the privilege of being here now.

[00:09:27] May Lee: Right. And that's where you say, Oh, life is so unfair, but you know what, that's, that's, that is life. Right. And so therefore, you know, we can sit and feel sorry for ourselves and complain, um, and then retreat, which, you know, people do, and that's okay if you need to. Um, but I think I'm somebody who, you know, I feel like I constantly have to do something that matter.

[00:09:51] Savia Rocks: Yeah, you're like me. 

[00:09:52] May Lee: Yeah. Yeah. You're like me. 

[00:09:54] Savia Rocks: I'm like, no, I'm not having it. 

[00:09:57] May Lee: Podcast where you want to inform and educate and [00:10:00] inspire, right? Just like me, you know, that's, that's what I want to try to do. And so that drive, um, for me really comes from, you know, it's, it's a very deep kind of drive. It's not, it's not a shallow ambition.

[00:10:14] It's not about. It's not about fame, it's not about fortune, it really is driven by wanting to make an impact, um, and wanting to leave, you know, you hear the word legacy, right, when it comes to, when it comes to people reaching a certain age and, you know, a certain place in their career or their life. Um, and legacy sometimes sounds daunting.

[00:10:37] It's like, Oh, I don't have a legacy. I think every single one of us should have a legacy of some kind, right? And it should be something that is purposeful and leaves the world, hopefully in a better place or at least more inspired, you know, even if you inspire one person, that's your legacy. Do you know what I 

[00:10:57] Savia Rocks: learned?

[00:10:58] I learned that your legacy is [00:11:00] every day. Because you can speak to someone and they walk off and remember you for the rest of their life. So you've already made a legacy. 

[00:11:09] May Lee: I love that. I love that. That, you know what? I haven't heard that, but that's so true. You can have an impact on somebody every day and that can.

[00:11:18] Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. And that's why I love being both a journalist, um, because I can a lot of people and, and again, inform and, and give voice to the voiceless. And I also love being an educator, right? Um, I've been a professor and teaching journalism, um, at, uh, different universities and that, That is really incredible reward when you see these young minds being positively impacted.

[00:11:46] And then, you know, the sweet thing is I, you know, my students will say, you know, professor, I've never had a professor like you really opened my eyes. You opened my mind. You know, you changed my view in terms of how I should look at [00:12:00] the world. And so that is so gratifying when that happens. Yeah. 

[00:12:05] Savia Rocks: No, that's definitely a hundred percent.

[00:12:07] I would love to know how your journey. Began because everybody's journey began somewhere and you know, journalist, entrepreneur, educator, activists, all of these, I know they're all intertwined with each other at some point, but please break down for me how you, how it came. What was the epiphany or what was it for you that said, Nope, I'm gonna do this, this, this, and this, and it's for this reason.

[00:12:33] May Lee: Yeah, well, you know, it's, uh, I, I have to admit that I was the stereotype, stereotypical young Asian girl growing up. And what I mean by that, um, is that I was shy. I was quiet. I was timid. Uh, I wasn't very bold. Uh, I wasn't, you know, someone who made a lot of noise and that was the stereotype of an Asian [00:13:00] girl, right?

[00:13:01] Uh, certainly not a good one, but it really, I did fall into that. And again, I think that had to do with my environment and all of that. So, so as a good Asian kid should do, according to the stereotype, we should be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, something, some sort of career that's supposed to be very safe then.

[00:13:23] Stable, you know, um, aspirational to a certain extent when it comes to the Asian community. So I thought I was gonna be a doctor and I pushed to do that even though I sucked at math and science. So, I mean, I was the worst. So it would, it, I couldn't have chosen a worse kind of profession to try to go into.

[00:13:45] But I fought it. I fought it through high school and then I declared pre med in college. Finally, my second year in college, sophomore year, I was like, May, who the fuck are you kidding me? Who the fuck are you kidding, right? [00:14:00] You cannot do this. This is not your calling. And so my experience was actually kind of divine.

[00:14:08] I prayed. I prayed and I said, what am I supposed to do? I don't know what I should do because this is not it. And I literally felt like I heard a voice tell me, you need to go into a field where you can use your voice. You love, you love the visual media. Um, and you have the sense of justice. And that's when I said, Oh, I think I need to be a broadcast journalist.

[00:14:35] So from that point on, it was so clear, it was so clear, the vision that I pursued this career from that point on, sophomore year in college, and I haven't done anything since. So I, you know, got internships through college, then I got a job behind the scenes at a local station. Then I got my first reporting job after I graduated at, in local stations and then started moving up [00:15:00] the ranks.

[00:15:01] And then eventually I got a job overseas to work in Japan as a correspondent and anchor for NHK. And then that's when CNN picked me up two years later, became a correspondent in Tokyo. Then CNN transferred me to Hong Kong to become an anchor, uh, for CNN International. Um, and I was there for several years.

[00:15:21] Then I came back to the U. S., joined Oprah Winfrey's first television network called Oxygen Media. And it was very empowering. I mean, honestly, it was one of the best jobs I've ever had because it was very Oprah esque. It was about women, empowerment, about information and education, you know, everything that you would want in a network that celebrated women and girls.

[00:15:46] So I was the co host of the flagship show called Pure Oxygen, and it was just amazing. It was an amazing experience. Oprah, of course, I met a couple of times because, you know, she was one of the owners. Um, and then from that [00:16:00] point, I went on to continue to do different networks, went back to the news for a little while, went back overseas, back to Singapore to work for CNBC, and then eventually came back to the U.

[00:16:10] S. 12 years ago. Um, so that was my, that's been my broadcasting career, and it continues because I now have my own podcast and have been doing other production. Um, that's the entrepreneurial side. I Wanted to start my own production company in Singapore to be able to do a talk show for women in Asia. And so we launched the show called the May Lee show.

[00:16:37] And it was very, again, Oprah esque and I wanted it to be a platform. Or for women in Asia that I saw at the time who are really progressing. They were evolving. They were becoming more independent and very vocal. And so there was no media representation of that change. So the show, it almost killed me though.[00:17:00] 

[00:17:00] Oh my God. I was wearing so many hats and doing way too much that if I had to do it all over again, I would have done it very differently, but this is how you learn. Right. Every business person and every entrepreneur will always say. You have to fail in order what to do better and what to do, what not to do.

[00:17:21] And so very good lesson in what, how not to do something for me. It was painful, but I learned a lot. Um, and I think I still made an impact through that show. Um, so my entrepreneurial kind of, um, journey has been up and down, but it's been a real interesting experience for me as a woman, Asian female, you know, both trying to do it in the, in Asia and then back here in the U.

[00:17:50] S. Um, so, you know, that, that pursuit continues with my production company. And then quickly, with my educational [00:18:00] experiences, that happened accidentally. In 2018, I was asked to join USC, you know, part time just to help out with their journalism program. And that, that turned into an ongoing, you know, um, teaching, teaching gig for a little while, um, teaching journalism.

[00:18:15] And for one year, I went to a different university, uh, here in Southern California. And then this coming spring, I'm going to be back at USC. So, so everything does work together because it is about journalism, storytelling, giving to people, educating, informing, inspiring, motivating. Um, so I do see how it all, it all does work together, um, in a strange way.

[00:18:43] Savia Rocks: It does work. It definitely works together. One of the questions I ask guests before they even come on the show, so they fill out a form. They tell me all the information as you did, but one of my favorite questions is, uh, what is the, what is the common misconception [00:19:00] about your field and how would you like to clear it up?

[00:19:04] May Lee: Yeah, I really liked my answer, right? I did, I loved it. Okay, I might be misquoting myself, but I think I said, misconception is that Asian women are really timid and subservient. Yes. Um, or that are dragon ladies that are really cold hearted, right? That's what you said, yeah. Hopefully the stereotypes that exist, absolutely a hundred percent.

[00:19:34] You look at the history of Asians. And Asian media, Asian, uh, how Asians have been perceived in media and all of that. Those are the two stereotypes. Either the butterfly complex, so like Madame Butterfly, the opera, right? She's like this beautiful, you know, Japanese woman and then she kills herself because the guy doesn't come back, you know.

[00:19:55] And, or it's the dragon lady that's, you know, the evil conniving, [00:20:00] cold hearted, you know, character. Yeah. 

[00:20:02] Savia Rocks: But may, why can't a woman be strong and, and, and, you know, Karen and, and be perceived as strong and why is it okay? I'm sorry. I'll put my notes down now. Why is it okay for men to, you know, when they say something, for example, they're perceived as.

[00:20:20] Passionate. Whereas when a woman says something they're perceived as we have an attitude, you know, we, we should be subservient. Like you said, you know, there's, there's problems or we have trauma. Why is it? That we must take these, this abuse of words. 

[00:20:42] May Lee: I think because the patriarchy is so really strong, you know, in a lot of cultures, including the U.

[00:20:48] S. I mean, you know, here we are thinking we're such a freewheeling, independent, advanced society, but when it comes to male female roles, you know, we still have pay inequity. We [00:21:00] still have, you know, digit representation in C level jobs, board representation, media, you know, you look across the board, it's still, you know, not level.

[00:21:12] And so therefore these stereotypes still are very much alive. Um, you know, culturally, but also just gender period across the board. It doesn't matter, you know, what ethnicity we're talking about. It really still exists. And it's, it's, Look what just happened here in the US, right? It was the second time a female, there's a female candidate for the highest, you know, position in this country and the most powerful, perhaps globally, right?

[00:21:42] And it didn't happen again. Um, and, you know, there are a lot of factors. One of them is because this country, It's unbelievable. It's still not ready for a female president. Still not ready for a female president. [00:22:00] And because these biases, these stereotypes still exist, and whether they're conscious or subconscious, people still have these, barriers, you know, of thought.

[00:22:12] Um, and they don't believe a woman is qualified to lead, lead, that we're not strong enough, that we're too emotional, right? And so we can't make these decisions when, in difficult circumstances. That's all such bullshit. It is bullshit. Bullshit. And yet, here we are in this country right now. Here we are. We, we, we voted.

[00:22:39] I didn't vote for, for the guy. But, you know, a majority of this population voted for Donald Trump. 

[00:22:46] Savia Rocks: I don't know if they did, because there's so many factors I can get into with you about how I think this election really went down. And, and I'm sure you, you can get into it with me. 

[00:22:55] May Lee: I've looked into it. I've looked into it.

[00:22:58] I've done some deep [00:23:00] dives on some things and look, um, you, we could do a whole nother podcast on this, but I will say that, you know, am I going to say the vote was rigged and like voting machine were, you know, somehow manipulated what, which is what Donald Trump was suggesting. Yeah. Before. Yeah. After the outcome of that election.

[00:23:21] Um, no, I'm not going to say that, but I will say. Uh, what I'm convinced of is that Elon Musk had a very heavy hand in this election. I was gonna, that's 

[00:23:30] Savia Rocks: what I was gonna say. 

[00:23:32] May Lee: And, you know, when you have money Power influence, media control. Um, there is a lot to be said about how that can affect an election outcome.

[00:23:46] And the guy was giving away a million dollars every day to, you know, anyone who signed the petition, you know, in support of Donald Trump. So, so, you know, did he buy this election in some way, you know, [00:24:00] in some ways he did it in terms of his influence and using his money and power because he gave Donald Trump, 75 million to his campaign and then some, right?

[00:24:10] And now we see that Elon Musk has been, uh, at Mar a Lago every day since the election, um, whispering sweet nothings into Donald Trump's ear. Uh, so, so yeah, so it's, here's, here's the thing, Savia, and this is what I will say. Um, when it comes to sort of male dominance, and we're talking about gender, you know, uh, parity here, uh, and that there is no parity yet.

[00:24:38] What this world is, what I'm realizing now as I look around, and especially because of this election, I see that the world revolves around a common thread, which is men with money and power are pretty much in the driver's seat around the world. [00:25:00] And they're controlling so much of what's going on now. And they're helping each other, right?

[00:25:06] There are connections with, you know, obviously Donald Trump, and Elon Musk, and Putin, and Kim Jong Un, and, you know, you're just seeing this system that has been created. And it's sad to me because the average person now has no clue that this is what's happening. And they're being manipulated. To entrust their livelihoods to these guys who really at the end of the day, they don't give a rat's ass about the average person they care outlining their own pocketbooks and becoming more powerful than you can even imagine.

[00:25:48] And that's, what's, that's, what's so depressing to me. That's what's so depressing to me. 

[00:25:54] Savia Rocks: I always think to myself, when do you have enough power? When do [00:26:00] you have enough money? My friend said something to me the other day and I completely understood where she was coming from. You have so much money. Why are people still hungry?

[00:26:14] Like for her in her mental state in her mind, right? And I'm sure you're going to understand this perspective of where I'm coming from and where she was coming from. She's like, these people have so much money. It's, it's stupid. Right. But it's why are they still people cold at home? Why are they still people hungry?

[00:26:34] Where is there a call point what she said? She said she would make a law and say, you're only allowed to make this much money. And then the rest you have to give to charity. 

[00:26:46] May Lee: That would be Oh, well, that's what taxes for to a certain extent. But you know, Donald cut taxes for the wealthy again. Um, so, you know, even when we try as a system to make it a little bit more of a [00:27:00] level playing field, right?

[00:27:01] So, for the super wealthy, you know, maybe higher taxes so that it goes back into the system somehow. But, you know, that, that seems to not work because, again, uh, he's gonna, he's gonna cut taxes for the wealthy. Um, so, you know, to go back to what you're saying, your, your friend was saying, that's what I've been saying too.

[00:27:19] When is, when is it enough? How much is enough for these people? Right? I mean, Elon Musk is just, you know, it's, I learned this new statistic just recently. It's fascinating. Um, from 1981 to 2021, 50 billion has gone from the 90 percent of people here in the U S to to the top 

[00:27:45] Savia Rocks: 1%. 

[00:27:48] May Lee: Sorry, 50 trillion. I'm sorry, misquoted.

[00:27:50] 50 trillion has transferred from 90 percent of the population to the top 1 percent of the population [00:28:00] in 40 years. Okay. That's insane. Think about that. How, how does that work and how is that fair? Okay. Let's take fairness out of it. How is that even possible? Reality, and that's what continues happening this great divide that's getting bigger.

[00:28:19] It's a chasm It's growing larger between the haves and have nots and yet and yet here in the u. s this guy was voted in who believes in exactly that value system of the rich getting richer and Everyone else can fuck off. 

[00:28:38] Savia Rocks: Mm hmm. 

[00:28:39] May Lee: Yeah, I don't have the answer Savia. I wish I did You Um, but I will tell you this.

[00:28:45] I went to a meeting yesterday that I was invited to of all these very distraught. You know, voters who obviously did not vote for Trump and, you know, they were very emotional and, but they weren't kind of thinking [00:29:00] clearly about what, what happened. And so I, I kind of was the voice of reason as a journal.

[00:29:04] I said, listen, you got to think about it this way. Um, their messaging, the, the Republican messaging, especially the Trump campaign. They did a very good job pinpointing a couple of different issues that definitely stirred up a lot of fear, um, and a lot of, you know, conflict. So, a really targeted That's the messaging and found the different demographics that would embrace this messaging and it worked, right?

[00:29:37] So it's about immigration, right? The fear of immigrants coming in and taking everyone's jobs and being murderers and rapists, you know, and then you know The economy, right? The fear that eggs were too expensive, gas prices were too expensive, when in fact things have been getting better, but their messaging is not.

[00:29:57] Even though it wasn't true, it was [00:30:00] really pinpointed, it was focused, and they just, you know, repeated this message. And use social media, use podcasts like Joe Rogan that reached 55 million PS. in one go, right? And so they were very strategic in that way. And that's why they won the hearts and minds of these people who didn't really have the right information, but when it was fed to them in this way, It worked.

[00:30:31] It worked. And so our strategy now has to be, okay, we need to find better ways to communicate with people to get this information across in a palpable, understandable way, so that they grasp it, they embrace it, they understand it, rather than assuming Everybody's getting this information, right? So new media like podcasts, like you and I are doing right now, right?

[00:30:58] That's the way we can [00:31:00] get information to people that may not get it otherwise from like legacy media. People aren't reading news anymore. They're not reading newspapers anymore, sadly, right? So we have to find other ways to reach these you know, disaffected groups that feel like they're not being heard or seen, right?

[00:31:20] And so for you and I, we get that, you know, we grew up feeling that way. So now we can be a little bit more empathetic towards people who feel like, yeah, no, I'm not being heard. I don't matter, right? And so that's where we need to start working on developing better messages and better ways of getting those messages to people who feel like, you know, nobody's hearing me, nobody cares.

[00:31:44] Um, and so therefore I'm going to retaliate. 

[00:31:47] Savia Rocks: I always say to people, I feel like it's an ignorance and I, a lot of the time when you say the word ignorance, and I'm sure you'll understand this, people take it in a very, very defensive way, but [00:32:00] it doesn't actually mean that. It just means a lack of knowledge towards a subject.

[00:32:05] That's what it means. 

[00:32:08] May Lee: I think ignorance, the word has a very negative connotation. I like to use the word uninformed. Little gentler, but still people take offense to that too. I mean, everything, everybody is so defensive these days, right? Because everybody wants to stay in their corners. Um, everybody's in their own silos, which is another problem, right?

[00:32:30] We stay within our own silos, so we're just hearing each other. It's like an echo chamber, right? And so we're not hearing anything else outside of that this week, this past week, since the election, I have made a point. After I grieved and I didn't want to get out of bed, um, I finally said, okay, May, well, what are you going to do?

[00:32:50] Well, then I got to become more informed too. Even though I think I'm informed, I know that there's a part of me that is uninformed, uh, when it comes [00:33:00] to way other side of trying to understand, I kind of didn't want to, because I was like, ah, they're all crazy, you know, and say, but I said, okay, let me, let me start reading up.

[00:33:10] Let me start listening to other. You know, podcasts and different things that I can, so I can get a better understanding of what, what's at the heart of what happened here. And so I've become a little bit more enlightened, um, about the grievances that people had that weren't being heard, right? Everyone from, yeah, everyone from people who are barely making ends meet, you know, feeling like the Democrats weren't listening to them to, you know, a group that you never thought would need any help, but young, young white.

[00:33:49] Boys and men, right? This group now that feels like they are left out in the wilderness and nobody's listening to them and they're being [00:34:00] vilified. Some deserve. I'm gonna just say it some deservedly so, but others, these young men who are growing up, they have no fucking idea what, who they are or what they're supposed to do.

[00:34:12] Um, and so the, that group, they actually think that someone like Elon Musk is their hero. He's so aspirational. He's a billionaire, right? He builds cars, he builds rockets. How much more male can you get? Right? So things like that, I started understanding. I'm like, okay, all right. I, I kind of get where they're coming from.

[00:34:38] I'm not accepting their sort of like value system that they're trying to adopt. It, it has helped me understand why they for Donald Trump, right? Um, a lot has to be fixed here and I think it starts with how young people are getting [00:35:00] educated, how they're getting their information. Parents have to be a little bit more aware of what's going on.

[00:35:08] Um, And we as a society, you know, have to put some checks and balances in our system a little bit more socially, you know, social media is something that has allowed anyone to get on to say anything they want, whether truthful or not, and then people are being influenced by that, right? Because there are no guardrails whatsoever.

[00:35:34] And so that, you know, that, you know, can we build a system that allows for more guardrails? Well, we were trying, but the tech companies don't want that because they can't make money then. 

[00:35:46] Savia Rocks: Yes, especially the data as well. That's a whole nother subject to which we can get on. But that's one thing I do want to talk about is how do you feel as.

[00:35:58] that we can kick down [00:36:00] more doors, give more opportunities to, like you say, the women who you feel don't have voices. Like you say, both of us were very shy women, but something just ticked in us and just went off like a rocket and said, no, we have to do something. How do you believe that we as women, even doing this podcast, like you said, can help to do more to knock down more doors, but for each other, it doesn't have to be just women.

[00:36:27] It's communities. It's societies. How can we do this? 

[00:36:32] May Lee: I think for me, what I've always tried to do is, you know, when I speak to especially younger women, what I see is that Because society is so structured in the way it is, where women still have to second guess themselves, right? We have to rise above the standard that's set, um, to prove our value and our worth, right?

[00:36:57] And again, with this U. S. [00:37:00] election, you know, a lot of commentators were saying Kamala Harris, is expected to hit a higher standard, right? Um, compared to the guy who is run, she was running against and very true. So what I like to say to women and young women, especially is that You know, try to know your value and, you know, fight for that, really fight for that.

[00:37:25] Don't let anyone else tell you what your value is. And society does that, right? Especially, again, going back to social media. It affects young girls so much, right? Because they're being told they have to look a certain way, be a certain way, act a certain way. And so I want to try to change that programming.

[00:37:45] I think it's, it comes to down to, we all need to be reprogrammed. in terms of what we're expected to be and how we're expected to act and who we're supposed to please, right? At the end of the [00:38:00] day, you have to be pleased with yourself and what you're bringing to the table and then go out into the world and don't let anyone fuck you up basically, right?

[00:38:13] You need to find that inner voice, your inner identity, and really be comfortable with that to then be able to go out there and stand your ground, right? And yes, there will be times when you'll be knocked down. It happens to all of us, but then you have to be strong enough and know yourself enough. That, to say, nope, you know what, that was just a little bit of a blip, that person didn't know shit, I know who I am, I'm gonna move on, I gotta keep doing it, and then also then find your purpose and what you really believe in, without others telling you what you should believe in, who you should be, right?

[00:38:57] Sure, you wanna, you know, you wanna get advice [00:39:00] from other people, guidance. But don't let anyone shape you into something you are not comfortable with and into something you don't believe in, right? A hundred percent. Yeah. So I think there's, there's that. And then you said the word community. All week, I've been hearing that all, you know, across the board, we need better community and better support from that community.

[00:39:29] And we need to reach out to each other and not expect it to drop in your lap, right? We need to work to build that community and to sustain it, right? Um, I think we, you live in a busy world. We think we're connected because of social media when we're really not. And so to really build real. community that's genuine, authentic, um, value driven, you know, that's important to, um, so whether it's male, [00:40:00] female, whatever, I think that's something that is badly needed.

[00:40:04] Savia Rocks: Definitely. That's one of the things I always talk about in, in what ways do culture differences contribute to misunderstandings? Because this happens a lot and how can we nurture empathy and dialogue to help break down these barriers? 

[00:40:21] May Lee: Yeah, well, you know, it's, it's, it's an assignment that I give my students, my journalism students, um, uh, their first assignment.

[00:40:29] I tell them, I want you to go and interview a peer who is outside of your comfort zone. Meaning, Different ethnicity, different culture, different religion, different, you know, gender, you know, different sexual orientation, but it better be somebody that you're not used to hanging out with, right, out of your comfort zone.

[00:40:56] And then, you know, interview them. [00:41:00] So, all of them are nervous about doing this because they have to then approach somebody that they would never normally, you know, approach. They come back with the most amazing articles and interviews, because then I tell them to write it up. And then we share, you know, the experiences, and every single one of them says, Oh my God, professor, this was such a great assignment because it really, I was so nervous about it, but once I did it and made contact and a connection with this person that I thought I had nothing in common with, I found that we did have a lot in common and I learned so much from their experience because they would tell me something that I had no idea.

[00:41:41] Right. And so that's a small example, but I really do think that's what it takes. Right? I think it takes all of us pushing out of our comfort zones, really making a concerted effort to learn something about some other culture, some [00:42:00] other community, someone else who doesn't have a shared experience.

[00:42:05] Because all of our lived experiences, we each have a different lived experience, every single one of us. If we were able to share our lived experiences with each other, can you imagine how much more understanding and compassion and empathy there would be, right? It would be incredible. And so these divisions that we see now, it's because people have no, they have no interest, in getting out of their comfort zones.

[00:42:32] They have no interest in learning anything about anyone or anything. And that's a shame because if that means we're going to be devolving, right, instead of evolving. Um, so yeah, I think that's really hugely important to just for just, you know, just for a moment, try to get out of that comfort zone and learn something, something new about somebody.

[00:42:55] Savia Rocks: What is the best advice or advice that [00:43:00] you take with you constantly? What is the best advice you have ever received from someone that you will always remember? 

[00:43:09] May Lee: Uh, be curious. Um, and I, that was really good. 

[00:43:13] Savia Rocks: Yeah. 

[00:43:14] May Lee: My line of work, right? But curiosity, it's not just a frivolous thing, you know. Curiosity is what allows you to stay open minded.

[00:43:26] about something because curiosity will then push you towards trying to find out something new or different. You're intrigued by something. Yes. Something as light as like, Oh, you know, this movie I want to, I'm curious about this movie, so I'm going to go watch it. But it can lead to greater exploration, right?

[00:43:48] If without curiosity, we wouldn't have the major discoveries that we have had in throughout history. Right? So for me, I think I've always been curious. I remain very. That's [00:44:00] what leads me to the kind of digging into issues and people and, you know, places and travel and all of that. So that would be that would be something that I would always advise people to try to remain.

[00:44:12] As curious as possible. 

[00:44:14] Savia Rocks: When did you realize that words had significant power in the 

[00:44:19] May Lee: world? Oh, that's a good question. Um, I think I realized it very early on. Um, and I, it reminds me of what teachers would always say in my report card, uh, when I was young, um, and again, that shy, typical Asian girl, um, they would say, May is a good listener.

[00:44:39] That was a way that they were saying, okay, she doesn't say anything, right? She's like very quiet, but when I look back, I'm like, uh, that's, that's because I actually was listening. Um, I was listening to what people were saying and I was taking it in and I was seeing how people were communicating and how that impacted people, how it [00:45:00] affected people, including myself.

[00:45:01] Yes. And I did learn that words matter early on because, you know, words were thrown at me, some very unpleasant ones. And I, and I obviously felt how that, you know, affected me. And so the power of words, the power of communication, um, I did realize early on, and I think again, that led me to what I do to this very day, right?

[00:45:29] Power of communication and using your words can really make such an incredible impact on. Individuals, but also, you know, in much bigger ways as a journalist. I've certainly done reports was change policy. Um, so I know how how words you have to be very responsible. And we see such irresponsible behavior now with words.

[00:45:55] Uh, on social media, and that's what makes me very nervous [00:46:00] about the way words are just being tossed about in such an irresponsible way. 

[00:46:05] Savia Rocks: Now one of the words I am going to talk about is judgment. We are constantly getting judged every day by how we look, what we say, as you say, what we do. So if I said to you, May, if I took the word judgment out of the dictionary for a second and I said there was no such word.

[00:46:24] In the dictionary, what would you do differently in your life, knowing that no one would judge you because based upon the word judgment alone, we go into self doubt or wonder what someone's going to say or do. around us. But if I took it away for a second and I said, May, for 48 hours, or it doesn't matter, this is gone.

[00:46:46] What would you have done differently? Or what would you do differently? 

[00:46:50] May Lee: Well, I will say to you very honestly, this is the beauty of aging. And so I'm [00:47:00] 58. And when you get to in your 50s, And then, you know, obviously now I'm closer to 60. We really don't give a fuck.

[00:47:12] I'm telling you the truth. 

[00:47:14] Savia Rocks: She's looking right at me. 

[00:47:18] May Lee: Like we have no fucks to give anymore. And you asked that you asked that question to women who are in their fifties and their sixties, definitely. They'll say a very similar thing. Not every time. So, what happens is that we've been through so much, and I know I have, you know, again, judgment was like a huge thing as a kid, you know, but then of course being in the media, on television, all of that, judgment constantly, judging myself, you know, comparing myself to others and all that.

[00:47:49] But I have reached the point in my life at this age where because I'm so much wiser, and there's a podcast called Wiser Than Me that Julia Louis Dreyfus does, and she interviews [00:48:00] women over 70. And they all say the same thing. They don't, they don't care anymore. They don't care anymore because it's like, what, what are you going to tell me that's going to impact me, you know, dramatically?

[00:48:12] Not anything that I don't already know, or I could give a shit what you think. So, that's how that happens. So, but if the word judgment were taken out when I was younger, oh boy. Would that have made a difference? Sure. Because I wouldn't have felt this pressure to be something that everybody else wanted to be and live up to these, you know, um, sort of these untenable expectations, right?

[00:48:41] We put so much pressure on ourselves to be, you know, better and more beautiful and this and more talented and, you know, more money and all of these things and it all comes from societal pressures. So if judgment was taken away, I think, my God, I think a lot of [00:49:00] people would be so much more free to live more openly and more authentically and, and, uh, you know, without any kind of competition that was destructive.

[00:49:12] Competition is good. Yes. Very destructive, right? So yeah, if that word were gone and non existent when I was growing up, I think it would have probably been a very different experience. But I eventually got there because it was, it's called growing older. Yes. 

[00:49:27] Savia Rocks: Growing wiser. I call it growing wiser. Growing wiser.

[00:49:33] Yep. I think we should make an army of women like over 50. That would be an awesome army. That would be, I don't give a shit army. 

[00:49:41] May Lee: That's what it would be called. I see. Somebody said that, um, maybe it was Gloria Steinem who said, you know, if we could have an army of silver haired women, you know, can you imagine what they would get done?

[00:49:56] And I believe that, you know, I went, I decided to go gray during [00:50:00] COVID. Um, and I, cause I started getting gray when I was 12 years old. Can you believe it? It was the stress of my No, uh, but I did, I started going prematurely gray. And so I always call it, I started calling my hair when I was a teenager. And then during COVID, I was like, Oh, fuck this shit.

[00:50:16] I can't do this anymore. And so I finally just went gray. I'm so happy. It's so liberating. Um, but I do feel like women need to shed some of that, you know, expectation of what we're, you know, what we're supposed to look like, how we're supposed to act and, you know, be presentable in a certain way. Um, and if we can all liberate ourselves, um, from some of those things, not everything, you know, I don't, again, I don't judge people who still want to color their hair and do whatever, that's fine, you know, but I do feel like if it's too oppressive, um, and it doesn't allow us to really be who we want to be.

[00:50:56] Yeah. Um, Not helpful. [00:51:00] I 

[00:51:00] Savia Rocks: have only one or two and everyone keeps asking me how comes I haven't got any and I'm in my 40s. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. It's not coming yet. I'm waiting because I said I would love to have an afro full of gray. Do you know how sick that would be? 

[00:51:16] May Lee: I've seen women with afros and great and silver piece beautiful silver streaks.

[00:51:21] Oh my god. It's gorgeous See, yeah. 

[00:51:24] Savia Rocks: Yeah, I think we should make an army I think we need to write down this army and just and just create it cuz I imagine us going to war 

[00:51:32] May Lee: No, the thing our war would be so different right our war Yeah, it wouldn't be violent, and it wouldn't be about guns and killing people.

[00:51:43] It'd be a lot of love. A lot of love, a lot of kindness, a lot of compassion, and a lot of trying to, trying to make the world a better place, uh, with a lot of, you know, sort of community, right? Women are about trying to work together and support each other. That's why I do feel [00:52:00] sorry for men. I do. And, and not all men are like this, but a lot of them still hang on to this idea of, They can't express themselves, they can't be emotional, they can't, you know, ask for help and support.

[00:52:11] So I always say, wow, it's, it's too bad because women, we thrive on the idea of being with each other, you know, guiding each other, talking about everything, you know, um, and, and we, we love that kind of sense of support and community that we have where men don't have as much of that. And it's. I think something else that should be done is that there should be more of a building for young men and, and men of community.

[00:52:43] And I mean, for lack of a better phrase, a safer space for them to, for them to be okay to say, listen, guys, It's okay to open up and be real, right? It doesn't take away from your masculine, [00:53:00] masculinity and your manhood and all that stuff that you are pressured to feel. But, you know, try to get in touch with a little bit more of that other side that exists.

[00:53:10] Savia Rocks: You know, one thing I did see once I saw a mother and I think it stems from how you, you could stem from parents, as you may know, whoever, whoever it is, whoever you're growing up with, I think plays a massive key to, to how you emotionally turn out. Yeah. And I remember walking down the road and there was this young boy and he was crying.

[00:53:36] And it was his mother that said, stop crying. And he said, why? And he, she said, boys don't cry. And then I turned around and, and, and God, who told me to say this, but I turned around and said, that's not true. And obviously she heard me and she gave me the dirtiest look I've ever seen. But I'm proud that I said it because the boy smiled [00:54:00] at me.

[00:54:01] May Lee: Oh, see, see, you made an impact. 

[00:54:04] Savia Rocks: That's why I talk about legacy. Legacy. Yeah. Legacy can be in anything. And maybe, just maybe, I hope, May, that that young boy takes it with him to know that it is okay for you to cry. It is okay for you to have emotions. And, and that's why it's so important about the, the people that you have around you.

[00:54:28] Because they can either make a huge impact in a good way mentally or a really bad one. That's right. And I'm an optimist of life. So I always try to see, even when things look bad, I try to always see the great side, the bright side, the colourful side of life. And it doesn't always work out that way. But I push myself to be that way.

[00:54:52] I try and push everyone else too. These are things, and I think you're right, we need to do more. [00:55:00] So just open our mouth. Sometimes it's just about opening your mouth. Literally. 

[00:55:05] May Lee: Look, I mean, that's my job as a journalist. I have to be able to have people talk to me and open up. And I do have the ability to do that.

[00:55:13] I've been told by everyone from heads of states and presidents to the average person, um, that I have a, uh, an uncanny ability to garner their trust pretty quickly and then for them to open up. But anybody can do that, you know, again, you just have to have a willingness to spend a moment or two with somebody, um, to ask them a simple question like, you know, how are you doing?

[00:55:38] But how are you really doing? That's exactly right. Yep. Yeah. Not the shallow, like, Hey, how's it going? Oh, I'm fine. You know? And that's the typical answer, right? Um, but, but to have a little bit more behind that question, um, a little bit more sincerity. 

[00:55:53] Savia Rocks: Yeah. I agree. 

[00:55:56] May Lee: How I think that was a lot of things. 

[00:55:58] Savia Rocks: When was the last time [00:56:00] that you felt totally at peace with yourself?

[00:56:04] May Lee: Well, it certainly hasn't been the last week.

[00:56:10] Oh, yeah. Um, Okay. Okay. Um, that is, let's see, you know, I think, I think, you know, I will answer it this way. I feel at peace with myself when I'm doing something that really brings me joy. Um, and so it could be as, as recent as when I woke up this morning and as my dog is always sleeping on my feet. 

[00:56:36] Savia Rocks: Oh, I love that.

[00:56:38] May Lee: Moment of seeing her little face and me saying good morning to her. And she's like, and then she turns around on her, her back to get her stomach rubbed that moment. A moment of peace and Zen is something that I love, right? Cause it brings me that endorphin rush that, that, that, you know, feeling really good feeling, but also, um, in sort of a bigger [00:57:00] way for me, whenever I travel and because out of my comfort zone and it, it exposes me to something new, different senses, all of my senses become heightened.

[00:57:14] Um, and it's that, again, that curiosity that I talked about before is abated, um, and I'm learning something. I feel like I'm growing. And so that is when I really do feel a lot of peace and joy, for sure. So travel, people who don't travel and who don't want to go travel the world, at least like to places that are unknown.

[00:57:38] I feel bad for them and I say, why? Cause they're like, Oh, I'm too scared. Or I, you know, I want to just go to places that I know, or that's not what travel is for sure. You can go to the beach and relax, but traveling the world and the world is a big place. Is a way to really grow as, as a person and [00:58:00] find your humanity.

[00:58:02] Yeah. 

[00:58:03] Savia Rocks: Yep. I, I completely agree with that one. 100%. I love the fact that you said that because so many people I know don't travel and I wish they did. Yeah, I really do. I wish they did. So. I've only got a few more for you, but I wanted to ask you this one because I thought it might be quite interesting. If I was to take you and put you on a desert island and I said to you, May, you're only allowed one president, one activist, and one musician, who would you take on the island for 24 hours to have a conversation with?

[00:58:37] May Lee: Oh, wow. Okay. One president, one activist, and one musician. Yes. Yes. Okay. One president would probably be Abraham Lincoln. Yes. I like that one. Yep. I mean, he was in, you know, history, like history was changing so [00:59:00] dramatically in this country and then he was assassinated. So that would be an interesting president to speak with.

[00:59:05] An activist, um, I would say, you know, the, the person who came to mind immediately, and I think she's such a good friend, but just because she's done so much and she's still living, uh, Helen Zia, and a lot of people might not be familiar with who she is, but she's an Asian American activist who, you know, kind of started back in the 60s with the civil rights movement.

[00:59:28] But then she was integral in, um, investigating and, um, starting a movement when Vincent Shin was ki By three or two very racist auto workers in Detroit because they thought he was Japanese and that was when Japanese cars were sort of taking over the US, you know, auto industry and he was beaten to death with a baseball bat and because they thought he was Japanese.

[00:59:54] He was actually Chinese American. So she was integral in like starting that [01:00:00] movement and she's been for decades very committed to all civil rights, civil rights issues. So, you know, I always love talking to Helen. So I would have her on the island and then musician. Hmm. Again, probably some, I mean, I would love to say like Beyonce because I love her, but not, but then I feel like I should like choose somebody who's dead.

[01:00:24] Maybe Jerry Garcia. Okay, you're right. I'm a total deadhead. Grateful Dead. And Jerry Garcia was the lead singer of the Grateful Dead for decades and then he died, uh, several years ago. He would be a fascinating person to talk to. In combination. So, Abraham Lincoln, Helen Zia, and Jerry Garcia. 

[01:00:47] Savia Rocks: I'll be watching from the boat with my binoculars just like, 

[01:00:52] May Lee: Good question, though.

[01:00:52] That's a really interesting question to ask. 

[01:00:55] Savia Rocks: Because the reason why I ask is because it's just interesting to see the [01:01:00] personalities of who people choose, which helps me to understand their personality of who they are. So I really like the spectrum of And it teaches me a lot about a person as well, because I'm always very intrigued to, to know about people as well.

[01:01:20] May Lee: I would have probably had so many different answers, you know, if I, but, but yeah, those, those are my three. I'll go with those. 

[01:01:25] Savia Rocks: Awesome. So I know we spoke about legacy and legacy being something that is. That is an everyday thing. Well, I see it as an everyday thing, but for you, and this is just spontaneous.

[01:01:39] If I was to say to you, what would you like your legacy to be in your terms? Not in the average terms of how people see legacy in a dictionary. You forget that. How would you like to be remembered and known? Um, [01:02:00] 

[01:02:01] May Lee: I think for me, the most important thing would be that I was somebody who lived my life with integrity always, even, even when it was so challenging and difficult, right?

[01:02:22] And, and then my, my commitment, even as a young child, I felt this, my commitment to justice. You know, I think that's what's driven me all my life. When I, when I am faced with injustice and suffering, um, I can't help myself, but to try and do something, sit back and say, well, that's not my problem. So yeah, a life that was led with integrity and fighting for justice.[01:03:00] 

[01:03:01] Savia Rocks: I love that. 

[01:03:01] May Lee: Um, I think that, that, that I would be very grateful if that was my legacy. 

[01:03:07] Savia Rocks: To be, to be fair, I think that's a beautiful legacy to have. I don't think anyone would ever doubt your legacy or complain about the legacy because it's just something authentic. 

[01:03:19] May Lee: Yeah. Thank you for saying that. But I, I, I hope that's how I lived my life so far and I will continue to.

[01:03:28] Yeah. Definitely. So 

[01:03:31] Savia Rocks: my last one for you is, before I say thank you for coming on the show, I would love for everyone to be able to find you. Is there any way that you would like to share where people can find out more about you? 

[01:03:43] May Lee: Yes, absolutely. So I'm pretty active on Instagram, um, and my Instagram handle is, uh, maylee show.

[01:03:51] Uh, that's one. And then the podcast that I do with two co hosts, it's called Shoes Off Inside. And that's obviously very symbolic because [01:04:00] Asians don't wear shoes. take our shoes off inside. Um, but, uh, my two co hosts are Tamlyn Tamita and Kelly Hu. And so our Instagram handle is shoes off inside MKT. So for me and Tamlyn.

[01:04:14] Uh, so yeah, those are the two I'm very active. Um, X, I'm not active, especially now with Elon Musk, just insane man. Um, I think a lot of people are leaving X in droves. Uh, but, uh, but yeah, Instagram is probably the best place. For sure. 

[01:04:30] Savia Rocks: Awesome. And this is where I say, I want to thank you for your energy.

[01:04:34] Number one, you know, your, your honesty, your trust of coming on a show to tell your story in your way. But most of all, to help educate people and show them the matter where you come from, you Your age or your background. You can be authentically anybody that you want to be. Thank you so much for taking your time to come and ask people.

[01:04:57] May Lee: Thank you so much for having me. I so [01:05:00] enjoyed this conversation. So yeah, 

[01:05:01] Savia Rocks: you are more than welcome. And this is where I say, guys, I want to thank you so much for listening. To the ask people podcast and please remember you can subscribe and leave us a review on Spotify, iTunes, Google play, or any other platform that you prefer listening to.

[01:05:16] And this is where I say guys, thank you so much for listening. Stay happy, stay positive and as always, peace. Please continue to be kind to one another. You'll be guided through the light. 

[01:05:59] May Lee: [01:06:00] Good. Thank you so much, Sabia. That was a really enjoyable conversation. We will keep, we'll keep fighting the good fight.

[01:06:07] That's for sure.

[01:06:20] Savia Rocks: Yes, if you try, I fly like I'm Superman, spread your wings and let them wings fly, I fly like I'm Superman, spread your wings and let them wings fly, I fly like I'm Superman, spread your wings and let them wings fly. Spread your wings and let the wind guide you high. We're just soaring through this [01:07:00] journey, leaving fear far behind.

[01:07:02] Our hearts are full of courage, you can win if you try. Redirect the S to you, you'll see the power in us if you try. I fly like I'm Superman. Spread your wings and let the wind guide you high. We're just soaring through this Superman. Superman. Superman. Superman.