Learning To Trust - Katherine Nichols - Published Author - Season 5 - #210

Join us on a journey through the resilience and reflection in this insightful episode of the Us People Podcast, where your host Savia Rocks delves into the life and literary world of Katherine Nichols, a celebrated author whose work empowers women to uncover their inner strength.

In this episode:

•⁠  ⁠Explore Katherine's unique upbringing in the South, where her desire to stand out shaped her worldview.
•⁠  ⁠Listen to tales of silenced voices in her youth, and how this influenced Katherine's encouragement of free expression in her own children.
•⁠  ⁠Delve into the complexities of grief and the varied ways families navigate the healing process.
•⁠  ⁠Uncover the liberating power of forgiveness and the courage it takes to release grudges.
•⁠  ⁠Discuss the poignant narrative of sibling dynamics, unresolved forgiveness, and its profound impact on life as depicted in one of Katherine's poignant novels.
•⁠  ⁠Venture further into Katherine's literary repertoire, examining the themes and stories that define her work.
•⁠  ⁠Reflect on the role of education, the nurturing of creativity, and the enlightening process of learning through writing.

Prepare to be inspired by an episode that intertwines creativity, forgiveness, and the art of writing with the profound lessons of trust.

Website: https://kathy-nichols.com/

"Trust is not a fortress always easily built, especially on the grounds where betrayal once stood. Yet, with each brick of vulnerability and mortar of courage, we lay the foundation for a stronger self, learning that to trust is not to guarantee perfection from others, but to cultivate resilience within." - Savia Rocks

Transcript

Savia Rocks: 0:00

Hey guys, we made it to season five of the ask people podcast. I'm your host Savia Savia. And in this season, we aim to empower and embrace creativity through diversity as we dive into the fascinating stories and experiences of a diverse range of individuals. Highlighting their unique perspectives and creative endeavors from artists and entrepreneurs to innovators and activists. We celebrate the power of diversity in driving creativity and fostering positive change. Join us as we engage in thought provoking conversations like, I made myself intentionally homeless in pursuit of my purpose.

J Harris: 0:41

We're aware that. A lot of people want to present and they, and they were in my position and what's worse, they weren't a white male, which is a joke. That's even still a thing. I

Mel: 0:49

think my family never, ever say you can't do something. So full of support, full of support for whatever dream. If I said tomorrow when I fly to the moon, they'll probably say, I wish you all the best Mel.

Savia Rocks: 0:59

So guys, I just want to say thank you for supporting the Ask People podcast for the past five years. I really look forward to sharing another new theme song. Review. Let's go.

Katherine Nichols: 1:12

Hi, I'm Katherine Nichols. I write suspenseful women's fiction. My passion is finding ways for women authors to support and connect with one another. And I'm excited to join you today on Us People podcast at Savia Rocks.

Savia Rocks: 1:31

Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Us People podcast. I'm your host Savia Rox and today I am so humbled to have Katherine here with me. Katherine is a published author. Katherine, thank you so much for taking your time to come on the Ask People podcast. How are you?

Katherine Nichols: 1:47

I'm doing really well and thank you so much for having me.

Savia Rocks: 1:51

No, you're more than welcome. The gratitude is all mine. Believe me, it's all mine. So Catherine, my first question for you is, could you tell me about yourself, but also where you grew up and how that influenced you to be the person who you are today?

Katherine Nichols: 2:09

Yes, I am from the United States, and I grew up in the South, in a city called Chattanooga. It's in Tennessee. You may have heard the old song, Chattanooga Choo Choo. That's, um, one of our little anthems. I Consider growing up in the South a very formative part of who I am. I learned a lot about what I want to be like and what I don't want to be like and that is very important. My stories Come from places and people that I grew up with. Um, my grandmother plays a tremendous role in my writing. Even when she's not necessarily in the book, she's there. And I think that those relationships among women in the family are very important. My grandmother lived with us. My, it was a three generational situation and I feel like I learned so much about the female relationships. So I would say yes, it's all of that's formative. You know, I come from the time when Your parents would push you outside and say, don't come back until dark. So, um, I also see in raising my own children and now having grandchildren, I see how that's changed so much. And I wonder how much of an influence that freedom. Had on me and how that will affect the stories and the growth of the children that I have and the grandchildren that I have and love. So it's very interesting when you think about your past that way.

Savia Rocks: 3:49

Well, that's definitely true. How has it been seeing each generation as you've gone older in time? And you know, you've had your own children, and obviously, there are so many things sometimes, our parents grow us up in a certain way. But there are many things that we say is really good that our parents grow us up in that way. But there are many things again, Catherine, that we say, ooh, I wouldn't necessarily do that to my children when I have children. Is there anything that sparks a memory in your mind where you say, There are many things that I would do, but there are many things that I wouldn't do.

Katherine Nichols: 4:23

It's funny because one of the things that children are now taught is you never tell anyone to shut up. You don't use those two words. Don't shut up. And my mother's, those were two of her favorite words. And, and, I, I understand it. I was a talker. I was a storyteller from day one before I could write. I was writing in my head and I'm sure that there were nights that all she wanted to do was go to sleep. She was a work single working mom. She was a nurse and. I had just things I needed to tell her, stories that were going on, and she's like, just shut up. So, I've done a really good job of not telling my children to shut up. And it's really easy to not tell your grandchildren to shut up. You just love to hear them ramble on. But, um, I don't think I've ever said that to any of my three children, so. That's really cool. That's the biggest.

Savia Rocks: 5:22

That's really, really cool. So Catherine, there is one question I absolutely love to ask everyone. And that is, can you define who you are as a person and what you see when you look in the mirror? But on the flip side of that question, has there ever been a time where you have looked in the mirror? and not recognize the person staring back at you, how did you manage to come out of that or even become the person who you wanted to be and be happy with that person?

Katherine Nichols: 5:53

I think when I look in the mirror and have always seen someone who For whom it's very important to not necessarily be running around helping people, but helping people to know who they are and encouraging people. I taught high school for many years and through my writing, I write about women who do that. I will say that I've become confident in a different way when I was younger. I think I was more abrasive about, you know, let's fix you and I learned pretty quickly. You don't fix people. They don't really need fixing. You need to fix your attitude about them. And that was something I gradually learned. I'm glad I've learned about seven and a half years ago, we lost our son and he was an adult, but it was a terrible situation. And there were many days when I, uh, Woke up and looked at myself. I didn't know who I was. I didn't want to be defined by grief But I knew you have I know you have to feel grief and in my first book Well, the first book that got published that I wrote after that. There's a strong theme of loss and loss without having reconciled with the person before the loss. And so grief has come to play an important role in my books, but they're not, they're sadness, but my main characters have the kind of spirit I want to have. Um, they, they stay hopeful even though they go through despair. So I would say, That, of course, was the defining moment when I didn't, I wasn't sure who I was and I wasn't sure who I was going to become from that point. And later in your life, that's kind of scary because you think you're already there.

Savia Rocks: 7:47

Yeah, that's really, really true. One question that I do want to ask, especially because you shared something so close to your heart is how does a family cope? Because I know that sometimes, Catherine, it can either bring you together as a family and you bond and become closer. And care about each other more, or we can tear you apart. I would just love to ask you, how did that affect you? If you don't mind me asking you,

Katherine Nichols: 8:13

uh, it's, it's, I think of my youngest daughter. I, um, well, my older daughter is actually my stepdaughter, but I think of her as my daughter. So I always say. She's my daughter, because I've known her since she was three, a very impressive little three year old. My younger daughter at the time was living in LA, and she had gotten a job with Oprah, the Oprah Network, and then she went from there to CBS when Oprah did some shifting around, but she liked being in LA. It was fun, but she always talked about She would come home. She, that was not, L. A. was not going to be home. And she was absolutely devastated, as we all were, by the loss. But for her, it kind of cemented, she was ready to come home. And having her come home was a very healing component. We had a yours, mine, and ours set up. But we all think, we thought of each other's children as our children. And Kate was the middle piece. For And having her back really, I think, helped us a great deal. And we had struggled with situations for a long time, um, before the loss. So, I feel like it did strengthen us, but I don't ever feel superior to anyone who goes through it. And they don't come out feeling like it strengthened that relationship because everything is so individual.

Savia Rocks: 9:44

I'm so glad that you shared that because I know a few people who have gone through that situation and everybody, like you say, handles it in different ways and emotionally it can be Really challenging. Really, really challenging. I think one of the things that I do want to talk about, which I find very important, which connects to the question is forgiveness. I think forgiveness is one of the most powerful things in the world that us as human beings can do for ourselves and other people. But how does forgiveness help you in your life? But also, how does it make you change the way you think and feel about life?

Katherine Nichols: 10:22

I think forgiveness, I'm sure someone. I don't remember who said it, but it's the gift you give yourself. And that doesn't mean you have to forget. I will confess I can hold a grudge. I got that a long line of women who hold grudges, particularly if you say something about somebody I love. I mean, I might forgive you, but I won't forget, but really forgiving. And, and the subject, I think it helped me. Well, I don't usually talk about it in relationships in my books because they're not about, specifically about that, but in the first book there are sisters and one of them dies before the older one has a chance to forgive her and it's that quest for trying to find a way to forgive herself because the sister It's gone. She can't forgive her. She, she does. She really almost had gotten there. So I think for me, it's like petty grudges are one thing, but genuinely forgiving someone while they're there so that you know it's happened and they may not even know you were forgiving them, but you know that you let it go. Something important like that. Um, Because it's frightening, you know, you think about you could lose someone and have that thing between you that you don't want there So I I try to be more open to be not judging so much but for and forgiving when someone has Really, there are very few people that it's hard for me to forgive because to me, it's only the people you truly care about who can hurt you enough that you need to forgive them. The rest of it's like, eh, maybe she had a bad day or maybe I won't talk to her anymore, you know, but to truly forgive someone that you love is an act of love for them and for yourself. And I think I know that I've, it took me a while to learn that.

Savia Rocks: 12:26

What about writing? What inspires you to write? Because like you say, we talk about the book. Let's talk about the book. The sisters, because I think that's a good place to start. Where was your mindset? to put pen to paper and even have the imagination to make this book happen. How did you feel?

Katherine Nichols: 12:45

Well, the, the book was a, um, the idea for the book came from a friend of mine who lost a sister to an abusive relationship and they had moved to another country. Other than that, There's nothing, nothing else similar to it. That was just, I just kept thinking, what would that be like? What would, and, and for me, I don't have a sister. I have a wonderful brother. I always wanted to have a sister, although I've done some book talks and I usually say, do you have a sister? And they'll say, yes. And I'll say, well, I always wanted one. And several of them go, yeah, well, it's not always what it's cracked up to be. Yeah. So that's been very interesting. Uh, for me, it was the idea of what would you do if you didn't get a chance to forgive someone that you had absolutely adored and not only that, they go away to a place you can't reach them and then they're gone forever. And so it's like a piece of yourself is gone. And that. I think sometimes it's like if you imagine the worst that's going to happen, then you're not so much afraid of future things. And I almost feel like that book helped me think, okay, these, this is something that this young woman could never expect would have happened to her, and certainly not to her sister. But knowing that she can find a way to deal with it and come out of it stronger and come out of it with hope. I felt like that was kind of my story too, and I think it's a lot of people's stories that is, that you, you, you can't give up on the idea of having hope again.

Savia Rocks: 14:29

I agree with you there. I think there's a lot of people that can relate to the book and even before I go on, I want to say if you ever have a chance to read Catherine's book, I would strongly advise you to go out and get it and read it because there are a lot of things in there that you can learn from. Thank you, Catherine, for sharing that with us.

Katherine Nichols: 14:50

And my, uh, heroines are always able to laugh at themselves and find amusing things in the world around them too. So it's not like you're going to be, um, sad throughout the book. And there's an element of suspense. I mean, somebody's murdered and you're getting chased and it's not slow paced.

Savia Rocks: 15:12

You know, you've got to have a good mindset and you've got to have an open mind. Yes, definitely. Totally. You've got to have an open mind. So you've got several books, Catherine, and I want to go through all of them if you don't mind, or a few of them at least. So we've gone through them. sister. So what about black rose? If, if that's correct, black, no

Katherine Nichols: 15:35

black, black rose is my publisher. Uh, the book is called the unreliables.

Savia Rocks: 15:42

That's the one.

Katherine Nichols: 15:43

Yes. The unreliables is also a story of dealing with forgiving yourself. It's very different from the sometime sister, not the, the heroines. You'll recognize the voice. You'll recognize my voice through them. But. It's a young woman whose husband has been murdered. She's a writer, and She can't accept the verdict or the not verdict, but the police conclusion that it was a random situation and she is just determined that she's going to try to find something out. It's not like she's a detective. She just can't let it go. She also has this feeling that she was responsible. For her husband being where he was, and even though everyone tells her that, you know, no, and, and she tells herself, no, she can't get past that. But. It, it's, um, like I said, it, it has some very fun characters in it. She has a stepmother who is what we call here in Atlanta, there's a, a place where now there's all sorts of places where wealthy people live. Buckhead is a very prestigious area and we call ladies who grew up there and continue to go there. We call them Buckhead Bettys and it's not, it's not an insult, but things need to be a certain way for And so she is the The main, main character's stepmother is kind of a Buckhead Betty. She means, well, she sets some things into motion that she doesn't realize how dangerous they could be. But, uh, and she's funny. And then we have, uh, her good friend, the narrator's really good friend is also funny. I also have, when I was writing the book, it came to me and I don't really know. Oh, I know it came to me that the veteran situation in our country, I don't know In England, but the United States does not treat our veterans the way we should I don't know if it's country then. I think it's I think it's a universal thing. Yeah, definitely. And you'll see homelessness, you'll see suicides, and all sorts of just things that are reprehensible. And for some reason, it was important to me to highlight, uh, that with one of my characters, who's a great character. I always fall in love with my characters. But, um, he's a veteran of the Vietnam War, and plays an important part in helping the narrator figure out what's going on. And a way to help her give back after. Things have settled down. So that was very important to me. And he showed up. So it, I did research on that. I don't, I had to research Ecuador in the Sometime Sister because a lot, a large part of it is set there and I haven't been, but one of the men in my critique group gave me the best compliment because when I was reading it, he said, when were you in Ecuador? And I said, well, last night on Google, I mean, I really want to go, but it's, it's still a bit, I think it might still be a bit, yeah. dangerous for tourists, but someday I want to go to Ecuador. It's just beautiful. But, um, the same thing happened with, to me about the veterans. And when you're writing, it's easy to get carried away and just sort of dump all the information in there because you're so excited to have learned it. So I had to be very careful and that really helped me develop. My character, because he had to reveal these things without telling everything about it and you had to feel it instead of read the statistics. So that happens a great deal and and part of his was a forgiveness theme because his life took a terrible turn after the war and he needed to forgive himself as well. The third book that's coming out is called Trust Issues and It's, it has a three generational situation. It's coming out in December. The first sentence of it, I haven't totally memorized it, but it says, My mother was conceived in the back of a van at Woodstock right after Janice Joplin sang A Piece of My Heart. And so it sets the stage for the generations, the time frame, and very quickly you learn that the grandmother, is a free spirit. The mother, who is named after Janis Joplin, not so much a free spirit. And the daughter, the main character, is working on reconciling what she wants to be from both of those women and from her own self. So it also, it has a loss, but it's not the main character's personal loss. And it is also, um, It has a little bit of political implications to it. There's a, she, the main character is a PR person. She works on political campaigns and one of her clients is this horrible judge that she wishes she weren't working on his campaign and. Um, he gets, he gets what he deserves. So, uh, it, it's, it is, it does deal with forgiveness. It deals with, I just, I just love the, this one because of it has that generational, um, mix and the mother, uh, is searching for her own identity too. She never knew who her dad was and that's part of the mystery. So it's just a lot of, um, fun family background, but also some pretty heavy Issues in the family background while all this other dangerous kind of scary stuff is going on. So I, I think people will really like that one and I'm working, I'm working on a sequel to the Sometime Sister. Ooh, okay. Let me know about that one. I will. I have a title. It's the Substitute Sister, which might give you a little bit of a hint of what's going on.

Savia Rocks: 21:43

That sounds good to me. That definitely sounds good to me. So what impacts you to be a writer? I know from when we first started speaking, you said when you were younger, you always had stories in your mind, and you kind of know when you're younger, what you do want to be. I know as we grow older, our parents can sometimes mold us to going to different things, which is a big impact in our but you seem to have stuck. With writing, it's always seemed to be in your mind. What is it about writing that you feel so passionately about, especially for other people who want to become writers?

Katherine Nichols: 22:15

Yeah, I think, like I said, for me, I can remember, um, having stories inside me bubbling out all the time, even from when I was very young. Apparently, I made up characters a lot and it wasn't like imaginary friends. It was like, uh, scenes. From TV that we had and did that at a pretty young age. I also loved to teach. I loved the idea of teaching and I did teach high school English and literature and writing for a long time. Um, because you, you can't really make a living as a single mom in, um, writing. So I basically wrote books. in my head all the time, even when I was teaching. And then I also got to teach a creative writing class. And it was so energizing because I was helping kids tap into their creative processes. And unfortunately, the way we teach writing in Most educational systems is a very cut and dry, the five paragraph essay, or, uh, you know, that sort of thing, especially in high school. We're prepping them for a college that it's not really even like that in college. So we are prepping them. We're prepping the creativity out of them and their writing. So it was really fun for me to find ways to get that in, even sneak it in. And the more fun, I mean the less fun and more dry aspects. So I loved doing that. I loved learning about people through their writing, because sometimes you learn things they would never tell you, and you're not quite sure it's still a little bit of mystery there, but you have so many good hints about what might be going on with them and it. Is fascinating, which is why I love being in a critique group. And if we have any, uh, aspiring writers or writers in the audience, if you don't have a critique group, get one. And because it pushed me to keep going, it's, it made me read my stuff out loud, which I hated to do. I could stand up in front of a class and read Mark Twain and do accents and do the whole thing. But reading my own work was just so hard for me. Now I'm, I'm. Okay with it. I still get nervous sometimes, but it really helped me and then from the mixed critique group that we had, we formed our women's critique group. We kept both going and the women's was really helpful because women are basically our audience. I mean, men who read my book, like my husband, who have had to, but they like it, that there's, it's not just a women's book, which is why I always say suspenseful women's fiction because women love all kinds of writing. There is no women's fiction, but, um, it, because it is for an audience of predominantly women. They buy the books, they read the books. It was really helpful to have this smaller group of women that I trusted, and I loved their writing, and I loved the way they phrased their comments, and I loved the way we were able to take time to get into each other's characters and test out whether what they were doing made sense, and it's just so helpful. So if you want to write, at least have a partner. If you don't have a critique group, at least get a partner because it's so helpful and you may not agree at all with what they say many times. I sat and and pretended to take a note on something and thought I've never wrote. I'm never going to change this, but almost always when they said something, I would go back and look at it. And there was a way to improve it. Maybe not what they said. But a way to improve it.

Savia Rocks: 26:15

I definitely agree with that one. I definitely do. What is a day like in Catherine's life from when you wake up in the morning to when you decide as you laugh and I like it to when you decide to be creative or just have a normal day? What is a day like in Catherine's life? I would love people to know.

Katherine Nichols: 26:33

Well, I, I recently moved. My younger daughter is expecting a baby in June, and she was over an hour away, and I knew she is so smart and so talented, but She is so worried that she's going to get this wrong. And I think women her age, especially are such perfectionists, you know, they have so many expectations of themselves and you just kind of have to relax and you know, you think, Oh, I'm going to put them on the schedule. And I'm like, I just needed to be closer to her. And I'm in the middle of her, well, I'm, I'm just as close to my older daughter. So when we moved, all my normal days disappeared because moving at our advanced ages, it almost killed us. It was so hard. We moved over the holidays, the Christmas holidays because the market's crazy in this country and we just, we just had to find it something that was where we wanted to be and we finally found it. So I'm still settling in. So. I used to, when I was much more disciplined and settled in, I would try to set a goal of 500 to 1, 000 words a day. And I'm not a morning person. I'm not going to pop up and start right away. Um, I like to make my writing a priority, so I, I put it in my schedule, but it isn't necessarily going to be from 11 to 3 or whatever. It's, it's going to be there. But I can, I feel better about being able to move it around. So I, I try to get those words, that word count in, not every day. I mean, you just can't do it every day. Things come up and, and, and you, sometimes you want to just have fun. And, but I've also started, we started a podcast. My critique group started a podcast and I got kind of involved. We have, uh, We started with local authors, and we had a lot of women local authors on the group. It's called Wild Women Who Write, Take Flight. And the, the group was Wild Women Who Write. And we said, I listened to some podcasts, and I was on a podcast, and I said, You know, ladies, I think we can do a podcast. And they were like, What? I said, No, we're gonna try. So it's so much fun. It's way not in your league. Uh, we're still beginners, but we have had authors from California and New York and Kentucky and Ohio. And I think we're going to try to get some from New Zealand to a couple of ladies there. So it's been so much fun to do. At first, we had it in my house and we had a little wine and cheese and we chatted with the authors cause they were all so close. Well, obviously we can't do that on zoom, but we still try to keep it, you know, fun. So. I do some prep work on podcast, the podcast, not every day without either. I am on the board of a group called sisters in crime. It's a national, uh, women. It isn't all we call it sisters. And misters in crime, but we don't have too many misters in our group, but it's, it's a good group. I'm on the board for that. So I do a little bit with that and the Atlanta writers club, which is much bigger, but it's local. It's not a national group. I do some work, uh, on that board as well. So I try to balance my time and I know in June, my little new grandson. I don't even know what the schedule is going to be, but I know it's going to be fun.

Savia Rocks: 30:11

I love that. That's so cool. That's definitely so cool. One question I would love to ask you is about diversity. I think diversity is such an important subject for everyone to be a part of. How do you feel that you play a part? in diversity and what do you feel your diversity brings to the world, Catherine?

Katherine Nichols: 30:32

That is a really interesting question because as writers, you know, there's a lot of talk about cultural appropriation and not writing. You can't really write a main character that you don't understand where they're coming from. And I agree, but then that's in conflict with the idea that writers have, they could create a world. And they don't have to know everything about like Emily Dickinson wrote about the ocean and she never saw the ocean, you know, it's so it's like, how do you reconcile those things? And what I have done in my books is I will often have a good friend of the main character that I don't have to try to pretend that I know what has happened or the background of that good friend. I just have to understand the friendship and that's easier for me. And then. You know, we've had well, it's been around the world, but we just have had some horrible issues in this country about, um, racial and ethnic and, and, and, um, gender issues that have just been so painful for someone, especially someone who I've been around awhile and, I really thought we were getting better. I knew we weren't great, but I thought we were getting better. And I feel like it's like one step forward and three or four steps back right now. I think we can make up the difference, but I think we have to consciously do it. And one of the funny things I read, um, is when, White women, especially agitated about injustice and we want to do something. We form a book club. So I wanted to do a little better than that. So the book club that that I got involved with my daughter, um, the younger one. I said, we've got to have a book club, but we can't be all white ladies in the book club because, you know, how are we going to know? So she found this wonderful young woman named Megan Weaver, and Megan is an actress and a writer and, oh my gosh, an entrepreneur. And she agreed to lead our book club. And we'd hoped she'd bring more of her friends, but I think they were all like, what? Really? These, these ladies, we don't know if we're going to hang out. But Megan has hung in there with us. And we have done some reading of books I never would have read. Um, not, both fiction and, um, nonfiction. We read, so you want to talk about race, which was just, just so good and very easy to take small bites of it. We read, I think it, Oh, black devil and white America collection of essays. Oh my gosh. That was a musical theme and he talked about all these cool musicians. The, uh, and I've forgotten her last name, but Mary who's saying with the Rolling Stones and she did that part in the And give me shelter where she screams murder and the story behind that. So I've learned so many things. And we're still reading, we're reading now, uh, how to be a light keeper because we realized we were reading all about all these injustices and we're just so frustrated. What do you do? So, this, the book we're reading now is inspirational and it shows you how to approach things so that you can find joy through activism.

Savia Rocks: 34:07

Yes. Yes. I'm actually proud that you guys do that.

Katherine Nichols: 34:13

I'm, I'm hoping that I'm adding to an open mindedness about

Savia Rocks: 34:20

this. I think we all, I think we all need more open mindedness. I'm glad that more of us are talking about it and even talking about uncomfortable things in life can help the world. It's not just, Oh, I'm going to ignore it because I feel uncomfortable about it. The more we speak about it, the more we understand each other. And I think that is the most beautiful thing that you can do in the world. Because I always say to people, you never know where you're going to be. You might fall down somewhere and it's the person who you least expect to help you will be the one person to lift you off the ground and save your life. I always say that, so I never give any discrimination against anyone. I'm always very loving and humble and I think We need more people like that. And that's why I say, Catherine, I am proud of you because you took that step to do something and it's the small things that make the big things happen in the world. You know? And you are right for even just bringing it up that we need to have more change. You are right. And so that means a lot.

Katherine Nichols: 35:25

Well, thank you. I feel like I shouldn't even be thanks for that though. I feel like that's what we should just be doing. It's kind of like a no brainer. If you make the world better for the people for whom it's the worst, you make the world better for everybody. And that's just common sense, but we seem to have a lack of common sense in our world today.

Savia Rocks: 35:46

That is true. Um, it might just be the people who have the power, just don't want. You know, people to have that compassion and kindness because the less compassion and kindness that we have in the world and the more people are fighting against each other, the more that it creates war, the more money they make. And we all know the politics we ever think, you know how everything is. It's more about money and power rather than love, compassion and wisdom for each other. And. That is something that we need to just fight against and educate ourselves. One of the most important thing we can do in the world is to educate ourselves and other human beings around us. So, and I think

Katherine Nichols: 36:23

I think it's interesting because there, you know, you hear a lot of people complain about, um, social media and that sort of thing. And yeah, there are a lot of things about social media that are not good and very frustrating. But one of the good things is it is very hard to keep world secrets. With social media now, I mean, everybody's, you better be nice because somebody's going to catch you not being nice and they're going to put it everywhere. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think if I don't care why people are nice, just be nice.

Savia Rocks: 37:03

That is so true. That is so true. Oh, dear. I might use that one. You know, Catherine, that is so true. That is so true. How do you feel? Okay, let's talk about creativity. One of the most fantastic things that we all have in the talents. We all have in the world is creativity. Talk to me more about how you feel your creativity helps you and how it has helped you, especially with an obstacle in your life because we all go through things in our lives, good ones and bad ones. But how has creativity helped you in your life overcome obstacles?

Katherine Nichols: 37:42

I think that it helped me a great deal because I, especially as a teacher, I would hear kids say. Oh, I don't have a creative bone in my body. And I thought it's because people told you don't or because you compared yourself to people and you didn't understand your spark, what's different from their spark. So I've always thought creativity was kind of a habit. Uh, if you could, if you could recognize, even when someone says something in a unique way, or it makes you laugh because you haven't heard it before, Thought of that way. And you tell somebody, Oh, like you just said to me, Oh, I'm going to use that. Well, knowing that someone thinks that what you have done is unique and important, gives you the courage to try something you might not try. And I think having that courage to see what might be there will really help you when you're going through a time where you can barely see How you're going to get through the day and if you have that habit to fall back on it may not be there right away Creativity is about living creatively and finding ways to help yourself feel better and finding ways, even if it's just one little thing that you can do, and it might build on that. So I feel like if we could encourage young children, especially, and not let it get to them. It's like I thought I, I taught gifted kids for, um, and, and all levels of kids. But in my gifted training, I learned so many ways that we don't. Encourage children to be creative because the creative kid is often a problem. They're the one in the classroom going, but why? Or what if, and you've got like elementary school teachers could have what? 20, 30, some kids in some areas that you just don't have time to do why for every kid. So I understand it. Uh, and our system doesn't encourage it. I feel like. Very few educational systems do, and I feel if we did that from the beginning and we asked children in a way they could understand what are you passionate about, did anyone in your schooling ever ask you, what are you passionate about now, obviously, when the child is little. You've got to phrase it differently, and you also have to understand, help them understand, you may be passionate about that today, and you're passionate about dinosaurs, you might become an archaeologist, or you might go, okay, dinosaurs, I'm ready for something new, but this encouraging passion in young people will really help them tap into creativity, but more importantly, It'll give them the courage to speak up about things they care about because they understand how important those things are. And I feel like we need to build an educational system around passion. And, you know, I agree with you there. I remember I had one student, uh, in high school who said she was going to become a teacher and I was so pleased. And then I ran into her later and she said, no, she said, I didn't. She said, I realized. when I started that the only reason I wanted to become a teacher was because it looked like you were having so much fun being a teacher. And I said, that's even nicer to me than if you had gone ahead and become a teacher, because just knowing that I could show you that there was passion in what I did, it could help you find, know that you needed to find that for yourself.

Savia Rocks: 41:27

I love that. I totally love that. So let's talk about If there was one question, Katherine, that you wished was asked to you, that nobody ever really asks you, what question would that be and why?

Katherine Nichols: 41:46

That's a good question. Well, of course, no one ever asked me what I was passionate about. But, you know, no one ever asks why you make a decision. You know, like, It's like, I, I might have, I chose to be a teacher. I don't remember anybody asking me why I wanted to be a teacher. Why I wanted to be a teacher. I mean, yes, you go into teaching because you want to make the world a better place and all those lofty goals. I'm not even sure how I would have answered that. I think it would have been because, because it gives me joy, which is, you know, that's not really what people expect or want to hear. They want to hear the motor and they want to hear it. More unselfish, but it selfishly. It just made me feel good, but no one ever asked you that. And then from there, you can go on to think, well, why does it make you feel good? And you can ask more, but I don't think anyone ever asked me why I made even little decisions like you get in trouble for doing stuff. That you're not supposed to do, but I don't remember anybody asking me, well, why did you decide to do that? It was just, you know, you made a bad decision, right? Of course, you're going to say that, yes, but you don't want to get in trouble anymore. But yeah, and I'm going to try to remember that and ask my grandchildren, why did you do that? Why, why did you think that was a good decision? And do you still think so?

Savia Rocks: 43:16

Yeah, I think it's a good, I always love asking that question, because it, You don't just think of it now. You may think of it like 10 years down the line and you may say to yourself, What's the question that nobody's ever asked me? And I still haven't been asked it. So yeah, I love that. Take it with you. Go with it. Ask everyone it.

Katherine Nichols: 43:34

Yeah. And even if you're there, even if it was a good decision, you know, it's not always reflective. Well, like I think teaching was a good decision, but why did I make it? Because I worked with student teachers and, um, through the university system. And. I don't, and I didn't ask that too much. I did ask them, but I didn't require too much of a response for them because I knew that some of them just did it because, you know, they,

Savia Rocks: 44:03

and,

Katherine Nichols: 44:03

and when I was. At my age, there weren't a whole lot of other fields you could go into, um, as a woman. So now it's really important to ask, why? Why did you do that? Why do you, because my younger daughter went in, both of my daughters went into production work, and my older daughter is now a partner in a, freelance production firm. My older daughter, I mean, my younger daughter found out that she liked nonprofit. She did big brothers, big sisters when she went to LA and she loved it. And she also realized she needed to make some money. So she did figure out how to get into some foundation work eventually. But at first she was working for points of light and care and having a wonderful time doing it. And it, it just kind of was. She, and the reason she did, I did ask her why, we did talk about why, and for her it was just like, it was just, she needed a reason for her work. And yes, other than making money and the reason for her work was to have to start a school in Africa or to do these things. So, I, I think that is really cool and, and with my older daughter, it gives her the power to also help with that. Groups that need recognition and may or may not have the finances to do that She can eventually work to consult and help with that. So I think the whys are so important with that

Savia Rocks: 45:39

They're most definitely if there was one quote Catherine that represented you as a person What quote would you choose and why would you choose that particular quote?

Katherine Nichols: 45:50

Well, this is not terribly deep, but I love Dorothy Parker And I remember growing up in the fourth grade, they get an eye test and I realized that there were individual leaves on the trees, uh, that I had never seen because I was just so needed glasses, but Dorothy Parker said. Uh, men don't make passes at girls who wear glasses. And the reason that sticks with me is because it just hits at the insecurities that women have about everything. It's their appearance. It's how they measure up. And, and Dorothy Parker was, she was. brilliantly, um, brutal, uh, and with her satire and her sarcasm and, and that sort of thing. And, uh, wrote the poem about one perfect rose. Nobody had ever given a, she, but she'd rather have one perfect limousine or, you know, she was, she was really funny, but for some reason that quote, I'm sure it stuck with me because I didn't want to wear glasses. And of course I got contacts and the whole thing, but it was just like, okay. Who cares? Why didn't I say who cares? If a man can't see past your glasses, what do you want with him anyway? But exactly it's hard to see that and it's still hard for young girls and young women to see that I think I think that's one of those basic insecurities that It, it takes a whole different mindset for, at least for Western women, I think. I don't know the world, but,

Savia Rocks: 47:34

no, I think I agree with you, especially for the younger generation. Um, the younger generation have it even harder, I feel,

Katherine Nichols: 47:41

I do too,

Savia Rocks: 47:42

as well,

Katherine Nichols: 47:43

because of the social media images and

Savia Rocks: 47:45

exactly,

Katherine Nichols: 47:46

yeah, I, I think they need to, um, They don't, they don't really believe that everybody is photoshopped You know? It's like, maybe that's what we should teach'em in the first grade. Teach'em how to Photoshop and say, okay, that's how you spot it. I'll come and

Savia Rocks: 48:02

see, I'll come and teach them. I will come and teach them how to do that. I think that would be fun. Fun. Oh man. I've only got two more for you, Catherine. I've abundantly enjoyed it, but what is the best advice? You have ever been given, which helps you in your life, and helps you pass on to anybody that you love and care about.

Katherine Nichols: 48:28

Well, one thing that both my grandmother and my mother told me, and while it isn't entirely true, the essence of it is, they were both, And it was remarkable I think for the time period, because both of them really felt that I could do anything that I wanted to do. And the qualifier for that is finding out what you really want to do, you know, because that sounds like, oh, well, I can be president. I don't want to be president. I mean, it's an awful job. I feel so sorry for, uh. Our president right now, but the idea that it instilled in me a confidence that I didn't even realize was there. But, and, and even now like doing the podcast, I was like, well, why can't we do a podcast? I mean, somebody, other people are doing a podcast and, and you don't have to have a doctorate in it. So, uh, my, my daughter, younger daughter one time gave me, it was a backhanded compliment, um, because I was saying something like, well, You know, I can't do brain surgery. And she said, well, I'm glad there's something you think you can't do. And I was like, well, okay, that's not so bad. But I think it was that advice that you, you can do anything you want. Of course there's qualifiers and women can't have everything. We can't have it all. Nobody can, but we can prioritize to the point where we can truly have what we want, if we, we, If we're passionate about it.

Savia Rocks: 50:01

That's true. That is definitely true. When was the last time you felt totally at peace with yourself, Katherine?

Katherine Nichols: 50:11

Well, it's just a couple of months ago, my, um, daughter and son in law had a gender reveal party. And, you know, that, we did do that. Now it's such a big deal, I don't know, is that a big deal in, in England?

Savia Rocks: 50:26

Oh yeah, they pop the balloons, and they have the cakes, hot air balloons

Katherine Nichols: 50:29

flying over, dropping blue confetti. I mean, it's out of, it's out of control. But, this was very sweet, and they had been expecting the baby to be a, a girl. And, and I hadn't really, I thought it was going to be a boy, but I didn't say anything. And then right before the party, I was like, uh, this is a boy and I was right. But the look on my son in law's face when he said, cause he thought it was a girl. He was just dead certain. He said, I'm going to have a son. And there was something so beautiful about that moment. And not just because of him, but because I feel like men have come such a long way in embracing parenthood. And I felt like, my daughter's gonna be okay, my other son in law, best dad ever. It's so important to him. And it's like, There are more people carrying the generations to come and it made me feel so happy.

Savia Rocks: 51:34

Oh, I like that. And you know what? That's actually a really nice way to end the podcast. But before I do, I would love to ask you, Catherine, where can everyone find you? I know your social media platforms and anywhere that you feel would get people in touch with you. Where can they actually find you?

Katherine Nichols: 51:53

If you Google Catherine Nichols author, you'll be directed to my web page. It's K A T H E R I N E N I C H O L S. My books are on Amazon, The Sometime Sister, The Unreliables and Trust Issues Upcoming. I am also have a website called Wild Woman Who Writes. And you can find out some fun things about our group and the podcast, Wild Women Who Write Take Flight. So if you're looking, Oh, and I started a TikTok account. It's hilarious. It's not really, I'm not really that funny, but it's hilarious to think about me starting a TikTok account. So, I'm all over the place. I love that. I'm going to check that out. You should. It's, it's, it's, it's interesting.

Savia Rocks: 52:40

Oh, man, Katherine, I want to thank you so much for taking your time to come on the Ask People podcast. You have been an absolutely wonderful guest. Thank you so much.

Katherine Nichols: 52:50

It's been so much fun.

Savia Rocks: 52:53

Thank you. And guys, thank you so much for listening to the ask people podcast. And please remember, you can subscribe and leave us a review on Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, and any other platform that you prefer listening to. Please also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And you can also donate to the ask people podcast by simply going to the SaviaRocks website or just typing in paypal. me forward slash. us people podcast guys. Thank you so much for listening. Stay happy. Stay positive and as always, please continue to be kind to one another.

Katherine Nichols: 54:04

I, I think when I look in the mirror and have always seen someone who, for whom it's very important to not necessarily be running around helping people, but helping people to know who they are and encouraging people. I taught high school for many years and through my writing I write about women who do that. I will say. That I've become confident in a different way when I was younger. I think I was more abrasive about, you know, let's fix you. And I learned pretty quickly, you don't fix people. They don't really need fixing. You need to fix your attitude about them, like a,

Savia Rocks: 54:57

Yeah, we were in the car and you can win if you try redirect the S to you you'll see the power of less if you try I fly like I'm Superman spread your wings and let them win I fly like I'm Superman wings. Superman wings. Superman.